Fracture as a Combo Finisher?

[SpookyGhost]

Its not really a DPS Gain.

It is.

Its a loss of TP.

We have infinite TP.

Its a loss of Enmity Gain.

Enmity is a non-issue, even with the changes.

Its a loss of a Wrath Stack.

This is the only caveat of Fracture, and only if you intend to have IB up at a specific GCD that's been pushed back due to Fracture. WAR does have a plethora of other tools to deal with that situation, though, and a lot of the fun of WAR is mapping out all your GCDs in a given fight.

[Jpec07]

Are we still not clear as a tanking community on the fact that Fracture is BAD on a tank not named WAR, where even then it is only circumstantially useful?

I don't mean to sound brash but come on now. This topic is as old as the ground and its always a crapton of TLDR math to illustrate what a piddly skill Fracture is and confirm for the 99999th time that its not worth using on a PLD or DRK.

Well no, I've heard the mantra, just hadn't seen the math behind it. I've got a penchant for asking questions about the status quo, and I'd never seen Fracture's poor status confirmed by math. Now that I've seen the confirmation, though, I'll readily accept it as a DPS loss, and generally not worth taking/using outside of sync'd 2.x content.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

It is.

We have infinite TP.

Enmity is a non-issue, even with the changes.

This is the only caveat of Fracture, and only if you intend to have IB up at a specific GCD that's been pushed back due to Fracture. WAR does have a plethora of other tools to deal with that situation, though, and a lot of the fun of WAR is mapping out all your GCDs in a given fight.

Yes; because you lose a stack of Wrath its a DPS loss, its also a sustain loss. Its also a threat loss; even though you think that is pointless; its also a TP loss regardless if you have infinite or not. Then again I love using overpower. Not really for single target fights though.

[SpookyGhost]

Yes; because you lose a stack of Wrath its a DPS loss, its also a sustain loss.

Losing a stack of Wrath doesn't = DPS loss. Also I've no idea why we're talking about Wrath when you can still tank near everything in Deliverance.

Its also a threat loss; even though you think that is pointless

Because it is. You are still generating threat when using Fracture, just not nearly as much as a Skull Sunder or Butcher's Block. However, if you have enough aggro (which, with an Unchained opener, you will) then you no longer need to worry about it until you're in a situation where you might lose it.

its also a TP loss regardless if you have infinite or not.

For said TP loss to matter, we would need to reach the point where we actually run out of it. If we don't run out, then TP loss doesn't matter.

Then again I love using overpower.

Irrelevant entirely.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Losing a stack of Wrath doesn't = DPS loss. Also I've no idea why we're talking about Wrath when you can still tank near everything in Deliverance.

Because it is. You are still generating threat when using Fracture, just not nearly as much as a Skull Sunder or Butcher's Block. However, if you have enough aggro (which, with an Unchained opener, you will) then you no longer need to worry about it until you're in a situation where you might lose it.

For said TP loss to matter, we would need to reach the point where we actually run out of it. If we don't run out, then TP loss doesn't matter.

Irrelevant entirely.

Its a DPS loss;
Its a sustain loss;
Its a TP loss;

Do the math; it doesn't give a stack and doesn't work with combos.

I can put my head in the ground and go: "La LA la la LA!" too; but I am just saying some facts.

More Wrath = More Fel Cleaves, more Unchained, more everything.

Just because its irrelevant to you doesn't mean its irrelevant to me.

Your gear is about the same as my Warriors; and I can tell you do a lot of dungeons which means you should be using overpower a lot. So TP /IS/ relevant! :O

I'm done. /10char

Your 300 Potency 80 TP attack kind of sucks; face it.

[SpookyGhost]

Its a DPS loss;
Its a sustain loss;
Its a TP loss;

I'm done. /10char

[Waliel]

Its a DPS loss;
Its a sustain loss;
Its a TP loss;

Do the math; it doesn't give a stack and doesn't work with combos.

I can put my head in the ground and go: "La LA la la LA!" too; but I am just saying some facts.

More Wrath = More Fel Cleaves, more Unchained, more everything.

Just because its irrelevant to you doesn't mean its irrelevant to me.

Your gear is about the same as my Warriors; and I can tell you do a lot of dungeons which means you should be using overpower a lot. So TP /IS/ relevant! :O



Your 300 Potency 80 TP attack kind of sucks; face it.

But when the math says it's a DPS upgrade against single target, I'm not sure why you're telling them to do the math. You yourself haven't provided any proof that Fracture is useless and yet you go saying you're only talking facts and others have their ears plugged. If you average potency per GCD is 250 (taken earlier from this thread) and Fracture is 300, it's a DPS gain to use it. Unless that one situation where you might lose one FC because you used Fracture, but that's when your personal skill as a player should come through to know to skip that one Fracture.

Also inf - x = inf. If you can't run out of TP doing your normal stuff, it doesn't matter at all how much something costs. Fracture could have a 500 TP cost and if you could sustain it, the cost wouldn't matter.

Overpower is irrelevant, because you're not using it in your single target rotation, likewise you're not using Fracture in AoE situations.

Are you next going to tell us that DRGs shouldn't use Phlebotomize, because it delays their BotD stuff by one GCD?

[aleph_null]

Yes; because you lose a stack of Wrath its a DPS loss, its also a sustain loss. Its also a threat loss; even though you think that is pointless; its also a TP loss regardless if you have infinite or not. Then again I love using overpower. Not really for single target fights though.

Why'd the TP cost matter if you never run out of TP in the first place? If you're tanking mobs then yeah better spend your TP on overpower, but on single target idk how it'd be a "loss" when your net TP gain is always positive with equilibrium.

Wrath/Abandon stack loss seem irrelevant since you'd lose 1 fell cleave for every 6+ fracture, at which point I believe the potency gain over your average skill potency has surpassed the potency gain of fell cleave over your average, with the exception of short phase/fights where you'd end up losing a fell cleave for 1-2 fracture (for example phases where you'd end up with 4 stacks if you use fracture, then you'd better skip a fracture or two to get that one extra stack for another fell cleave).

[Ragology]

I'd like it if fracture got a combo bonus when used after Brutal swing. Either grant a stack or boost potency/duration. Or just make it into small heal like Ninja's Mug when comboed.

[Ragnorak]

Lawd Some if yall make my kidneys hurt