3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Alberel]

Job-specific Changes

Arcanist/Summoner

Following the release of Seal Rock, we received a great deal of feedback from players worrying that summoner burst damage might be overpowered. However, we could not evaluate the situation based on data from Seal Rock alone, and so we were not ready to make adjustments until after many players participated in the Feast’s 4 on 4 rated matches. We have since concluded that summoner burst damage is indeed exceedingly high, as well as the total damage dealt over the course of a match via dots.

To rectify the situation, we will be making significant adjustments to summoner PvP abilities with patch 3.22.

I won’t go into the details here, but if you wish to review the specific changes, please refer to the patch notes.

I should also mention that we have received a great deal of feedback regarding dark knight and ninja, and at the moment we are testing adjustments intended to improve their performance in PvP. These changes are currently planned for patch 3.25, and we ask that you please wait a little longer.

We will continue to gather your feedback and make adjustments to player matching and other systems in preparation for season one of the Feast, which begins with patch 3.25. While many of these adjustments are prioritized for this patch, if we determine that there are significant balancing issues that must first be addressed, then as previously stated, we may have to delay the official start of season one for one to two weeks.

We know that PvP is a demanding pastime that not everyone enjoys, and we cannot tell you enough how much we value the feedback you all provide, which helps us to fine tune this content. We hope that you will keep on playing and keep on telling us what you think!

I sincerely hope you're team is aware that SMN has NOTHING besides that burst damage. If SMNs receive a nerf to burst damage in PvP they will need massive buffs elsewhere to make their sustained damage anywhere equivalent to other jobs. Let's not forget that burst is only once every 60 seconds at best as well, and outside that brief window SMNs are already basically just spamming Tri-Bind and tickling people to annoy them... If you're going to take that burst away then give SMNs back the heal debuff or the heavy on their dots at least.

I'm also not sure why you're even looking at the total damage done stat. It is a meaningless stat on its own as it is the speed that damage is delivered that determines how effective it is in PvP. Summoners might deal 200-300k+ damage via dots over the course of a fight but it's dealt so slowly that healers can easily just heal through it.

This also contradicts your desire to move away from a 'focus the healer' meta. The only way people can NOT focus the healer is with burst damage...

I guess after all the other changes you guys made in Frontlines I just don't trust you to actually know what you're doing.

[Praesul]

I'm also not sure why you're even looking at the total damage done stat. It is a meaningless stat on its own as it is the speed that damage is delivered that determines how effective it is in PvP. Summoners might deal 200-300k+ damage via dots over the course of a fight but it's dealt so slowly that healers can easily just heal through it.

That's not really true. While burst damage is usually the most important, being able to bane buffed DoTs on entire parties put a lot of pressure on the healers. Instead of concentrating on healing themselves or a priority target, they have to aoe heal instead, leaving a single target open for burst. Damage doesn't have to result in a kill to be useful, it can also be used as a tool to apply pressure.

Honestly the AMOUNT of damage that SMN deals isn't really the problem though, it's how easy and quick it is to do while still being safe. I'd reckon that MCH and DRG can output higher burst, and probably BLM too. But they can't do it without putting themselves at risk due to cast times or having to be in melee range, so it's a tradeoff. SMN gets great burst while at safe distance, and it's all instant cast and can be prepped before an engagement. So it's not really fair.

[Fyce]

Honestly the AMOUNT of damage that SMN deals isn't really the problem though, it's how easy and quick it is to do while still being safe. I'd reckon that MCH and DRG can output higher burst, and probably BLM too. But they can't do it without putting themselves at risk due to cast times or having to be in melee range, so it's a tradeoff. SMN gets great burst while at safe distance, and it's all instant cast and can be prepped before an engagement. So it's not really fair.

Except that you're not safe anywhere in The Feast. This problem only occured in Seal Rock because a SMN could just use his burst and then run back with his teammates without any kind of opening to let the enemy punish him back.

It's completly different in The Feast 4v4 since you're in a closed arena and you can't "run with your teammates". Once their burst is gone, it's almost like the fight become a 3v4 with the SMN being just free medals sprinting away in a cat and mouse game. You can't hide in The Feast, and even if you could, you'd be murdered anyway and make the healer's job even harder.

SMN in The Feast really only have their burst for themselves. If they take it away, then SMN will be one of the worst job to play in PvP as their CC and party support is shit compared to, say, a BLM (especially with the new interrupt changes as well as the planned map changes to reduce the number of walls to break LoS).

[Alberel]

That's not really true. While burst damage is usually the most important, being able to bane buffed DoTs on entire parties put a lot of pressure on the healers. Instead of concentrating on healing themselves or a priority target, they have to aoe heal instead, leaving a single target open for burst. Damage doesn't have to result in a kill to be useful, it can also be used as a tool to apply pressure.

Honestly the AMOUNT of damage that SMN deals isn't really the problem though, it's how easy and quick it is to do while still being safe. I'd reckon that MCH and DRG can output higher burst, and probably BLM too. But they can't do it without putting themselves at risk due to cast times or having to be in melee range, so it's a tradeoff. SMN gets great burst while at safe distance, and it's all instant cast and can be prepped before an engagement. So it's not really fair.

A good opposition won't stack close enough to let you bane across their entire team, and that's without taking into account that your example would be on a TWO MINUTE cooldown. I'm not disputing that their burst is a bit much but if you take that away from them they have nothing to fall back on.

Every time anyone cites SMNs as being OP or fine, or otherwise justifying the nerfs they refer to something the SMN can only do every couple of minutes. Guess what SMNs do when their cooldowns are spent from their burst sequence? Tri-disaster and run away. That is all they can do. If they stand still to hard cast any of their dots they get burst down in seconds.

Let's not forget that SMNs have no defensive skills unlike every other ranged DPS job in the game. They are quite literally the ultimate glass cannon in PvP and their burst justifies how easy they are to kill. If SMNs lose that burst they HAVE to be compensated elsewhere or they will be a glass water pistol.

Yeah, SMN is useless w/out burst, can't blind, bind or malady..

Yup, lets spam CC with diminishing returns for 60 seconds whilst we wait for our burst sequence to come off cooldown. Oh wait we don't have a burst sequence any more... guess we just spam CC all day...

[Tohu]

[...]
Yup, lets spam CC with diminishing returns for 60 seconds whilst we wait for our burst sequence to come off cooldown. Oh wait we don't have a burst sequence any more... guess we just spam CC all day...

Said by mister "pvp all day" while not even knowing how to use malady?

SMN is pressure if you keep dots up, no need to discuss that further.

[insearch78]

They sound like pretty great changes to me. The smn should of never been a insta cast mobile blm, since it leave nothing left for a blm who is a sitting duck anyway. Group dots and pet attacks with insta blinds/binds are supposed to be the smn deal anyway. Blm is the glass cannon and smn is the dot and hide. Heals really did need a boost since they die too quick or cant heal at all from quick attacks. They do need to add a timout penalty to healer or tanks that just stand there and don't do anything. I have been seeing it alot lately on reset day of people queuing in for insta queues as heal/tank and just stand there for quick lore capping letting their team take a quick loss.