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  1. #1
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Momomi Momi
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    Behemoth
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    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tint View Post
    are you trying to defend this poor game design? yes, at the moment healing is not really rquired. and that's BAD game design in a game with a trinity. as a healer i want something to HEAL, not dpsing 99% of the time.

    it's like square has forgotten to built content with healers in mind...
    They do. It's just not in the dungeons.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    Tint's Avatar
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    Karuru Karu
    World
    Shiva
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    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    They do. It's just not in the dungeons.
    then probably they should remove the healer spot from duty finder for dungeons
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Zojha's Avatar
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    Lodestone Bait
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    Pandaemonium
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    Gladiator Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    They do. It's just not in the dungeons.
    It's in the dungeons as well, but healing is just plain way too powerful. You'll likely fail having no healer at all, but Selene/Eos/Regen typically suffices.

    And in raids, solo healing is the norm because unless people fail mechanics left and right, one healer tends to suffice. Even in EX and Savage content, you can apparently often spare the healing power and mana to get some more damage in instead.

    At this point, we could probably cut the potencies of every healing spell in half and most content would still be easily clearable >_>
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player Kosmos992k's Avatar
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    Kosmos Meishou
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    Behemoth
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    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    They do. It's just not in the dungeons.
    Are you referring to doing dungeons in max ilvl gear, or level appropriate gear. Dungeons do not, unfortunately, scale with gear, and ilvl sync is too weak to really make things work as they should. The dungeons are designed around active healing. If you remember running any dungeon in a group that just barely meets the ilvl requirement for the dungeon, then you have to remember that healing was very much *required* in dungeons when running with appropriate ilvls. But by the time you out-gear the dungeon by god knows how many ilvls, even with Sync, most DPS can deal with incoming damage using their self heals and mitigation skills, as can tanks.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player Kaurie's Avatar
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    Character
    Kaurie Lorhart
    World
    Leviathan
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    Summoner Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kosmos992k View Post
    Are you referring to doing dungeons in max ilvl gear, or level appropriate gear. Dungeons do not, unfortunately, scale with gear, and ilvl sync is too weak to really make things work as they should. The dungeons are designed around active healing. If you remember running any dungeon in a group that just barely meets the ilvl requirement for the dungeon, then you have to remember that healing was very much *required* in dungeons when running with appropriate ilvls. But by the time you out-gear the dungeon by god knows how many ilvls, even with Sync, most DPS can deal with incoming damage using their self heals and mitigation skills, as can tanks.
    The thing is, the 2 new dungeons aren't really like this. The ilvl we all went into them at was 210, but they were scaled even easier than the last set of dungeons. Healing them is akin to healing Copperbell or Toto Rak normal, I'd say - where Haukke Manor is slightly more difficult.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Momomi Momi
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    Behemoth
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    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kosmos992k View Post
    Are you referring to doing dungeons in max ilvl gear, or level appropriate gear. Dungeons do not, unfortunately, scale with gear, and ilvl sync is too weak to really make things work as they should. The dungeons are designed around active healing. If you remember running any dungeon in a group that just barely meets the ilvl requirement for the dungeon, then you have to remember that healing was very much *required* in dungeons when running with appropriate ilvls. But by the time you out-gear the dungeon by god knows how many ilvls, even with Sync, most DPS can deal with incoming damage using their self heals and mitigation skills, as can tanks.
    Level appropriate. See Kaurie's post. Also, all the early level dungeons require extremely little healing until you get to Brayflox. And even then, they don't require much.

    Once you get to level 50 dungeons, the only reason they require much healing at all is because of excessively large pulls. And you can still dps in those!
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player Kosmos992k's Avatar
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    Kosmos Meishou
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    Behemoth
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    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    Level appropriate. See Kaurie's post. Also, all the early level dungeons require extremely little healing until you get to Brayflox. And even then, they don't require much.

    Once you get to level 50 dungeons, the only reason they require much healing at all is because of excessively large pulls. And you can still dps in those!
    I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I don't think you can do without a healer in any of the dungeons starting with Brayflox, and doing the others can be difficult without a healer. Perhaps a group of 4 from a raid static who execute at a very high level might pull it off, but I think you're extremely over-confident to make a blanket statement like those when you consider average players..
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaurie View Post
    The thing is, the 2 new dungeons aren't really like this. The ilvl we all went into them at was 210, but they were scaled even easier than the last set of dungeons. Healing them is akin to healing Copperbell or Toto Rak normal, I'd say - where Haukke Manor is slightly more difficult.
    I see that they require ilvl 180, so you went in at ilvl 210 which is 30 ilvls higher than the target. You're overgeared before you even get in there. I agree that's is a problem with the design, and if they are scaled to be easier than the prior dungeons, that simply makes the problem worse.

    What I am having a problem with is people saying that healing is not required in dungeons. All things being equal, if players are not overgeared, there is a healing requirement in most, if not all dungeons. Even if they are scaled poorly for their ilvl. There's also an element of player capability as well. If we're talking about good players, then the healing requirement may be lighter, but with average or worse players, the healing requirement will be apparent.
    (1)
    Last edited by Kosmos992k; 03-15-2016 at 05:02 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Momomi Momi
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    Behemoth
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    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kosmos992k View Post
    I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I don't think you can do without a healer in any of the dungeons starting with Brayflox, and doing the others can be difficult without a healer. Perhaps a group of 4 from a raid static who execute at a very high level might pull it off, but I think you're extremely over-confident to make a blanket statement like those when you consider average players..
    It has little to do with the skill of the players and more to do with the strength of our heals. Cure heals about 50%+ of the tank's HP for most of the early game. It takes a pretty long time for their HP to drop that low unless if you're making large pulls.

    SCH can actually solo the low level dungeons without even needing to cast a heal.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player Kosmos992k's Avatar
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    Kosmos Meishou
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    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    It has little to do with the skill of the players and more to do with the strength of our heals. Cure heals about 50%+ of the tank's HP for most of the early game. It takes a pretty long time for their HP to drop that low unless if you're making large pulls.

    SCH can actually solo the low level dungeons without even needing to cast a heal.
    Hmmmm...I don't think so. We're talking apples and oranges. I don't think you would have been able to persuade any player of FFXIV that heals were not needed in the dungeons of ARR when we first encountered them.

    Scholar soloing a dungeon in level appropriate gear without a heal? Other than an exceptional player running a very low level dungeon, I don't think so at all.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Momomi Momi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosmos992k View Post
    Hmmmm...I don't think so. We're talking apples and oranges. I don't think you would have been able to persuade any player of FFXIV that heals were not needed in the dungeons of ARR when we first encountered them.

    Scholar soloing a dungeon in level appropriate gear without a heal? Other than an exceptional player running a very low level dungeon, I don't think so at all.
    Note that I said not casting a heal. You still have your fairy healing you. All you need to do is dps.
    (3)