FC Chest Looting

[Neophyte]

Are you serious? So based on your logic if you invite your neighbors over to your house for a party and they steal your car keys and make off with it, you the host are entirely at fault and you shouldn't get your car back.

Lol.

If you give your neighboor the keys to your house, the combination of your safe and a written allowance saying 'You may take/place any items in my house.' then yes.

[Reinha]

This.
SE can't correct every problem occuring because you trust the wrong Person.

What if the one, who 'steals' all the stuff was the guy who crafted/gathered most of it by himself, wants to leave the FC and is reported for taking 'his' stuff back?
Let's say I place an expensive orchestron role in the chest and fc leader sells it on the MB and puts the Gil in the chest. May I take the money from the chest? Is it mine or the fc's?
Can I report my fc-leader, if he deprived my right to loot the chest, after I placed worthy items in there?
What if I'm kicked out of a FC, while the chest is filled with stuff I gathered/crafted? Did they 'stole' it from me then?

The only rule is 'Who has permission, may take/place items from/in there', that's why there are settings.

This right here is the reason why SE will most likely not take action. It's the OP's word against the "thief's". The have been cases of entire fc:s turning against a member in which case it would be easy to blame a leaving member of theft even if he only took what he put in. Only the involved know what really happened. Blacklisting is an option if you, OP, think you were in the right. The fact of the matter is that the person had a right to take things from the shared chest. Sharing a bank account doesn't only mean that you can take other people's things/gil. It also means other people can take your things/gil. It's how it is with real life bank accounts as well and that's why you shouldn't ever put all of your money on a shared account.

I don't really think you know how theft works. I work at a casino, I have permission to enter soft count (where they count the money) if I take money out of this room, despite having access to this room, it's databases and safes, I lose my job. For that money belongs to my job, not me, despite me having full access to it. Based on your logic with me having full access, the keys and the codes, to my jobs ridiculous amount of money, I should be able to take it, quit, and walk out a free man and my job couldn't do anything about it, because they gave me access to this area per my job requirements.

If you apply it to final fantasy, being able to look but not touch is called "Deposit Only" (like when you can enter a work room but not remove items from there). Not the same as "Full Access" to a bank tab.

[worldofneil]

Are you serious? So based on your logic if you invite your neighbors over to your house for a party and they steal your car keys and make off with it, you the host are entirely at fault and you shouldn't get your car back.

I'm sorry, but that is a terrible analogy.

People with FC chest permissions were explicitly given permission to add/remove items from the company chest. Unless you have explicitly given your neighbour the same permission to take your car keys (and your car) it's not the same thing.

Sucky as it sounds, as others have pointed out, and as SE have demonstrated, if you give someone permissions to remove stuff from the chest, they are allowed to do just that, whether you like it or not. If you're not happy they could technically remove items at any point, for any reason, then don't give them chest access.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Lol.

If you give your neighboor the keys to your house, the combination of your safe and a written allowance saying 'You may take/place any items in my house.' then yes.

I don't really think you know how theft works. I work at a casino, I have permission to enter soft count (where they count the money) if I take money out of this room, despite having access to this room, it's databases and safes, I lose my job. For that money belongs to my job, not me, despite me having full access to it. Based on your logic with me having full access, the keys and the codes, to my jobs ridiculous amount of money, I should be able to take it, quit, and walk out a free man and my job couldn't do anything about it, because they gave me access to this area per my job requirements.

Now let's apply to this final fantasy, I belong to a free company, I have access to slot one of the chest, I take all the items, quit your company and do whatever I want with those items. I still committed a theft because those items belong to your free company and were intended to be used by free company members. I am no longer a company member but I have all your stacks of alligator pears, that is theft, no matter how you want to slice it.

Either way I don't care since I'm the only member in my free company and no one can touch any of my 45 million I've saved up, any of the crafting items, grade 5 materia, or ilv 220 items I bleed out to the market for profit.

[Protopop]

I agree that it would be nice to have GMs able to intervene and given tools in these kind of situations as this sort of thing happens a lot.

What would also be nice is if you could also set how many items or items from a stack a person could take per day on rank settings instead of it being all or nothing. As it is right now as long as you have permission to access the chest you can take everything that isn't in a locked tab.

[LionFranco]

This is why My FC has specific rules about the FC chest and permissions are set accordingly. Only the first tab is the one everyone has access to, and only after their first week with the FC. Then the rules are very clear that they are to share any items in the chest (don't take all 300 cordial for yourself, take a stack of 20 or so), the last 2 slots and the Gil are only accessible by the most trusted members, and promotions can only be performed by guild leaders. We have no super rare items in that first tab, and if anyone wants materia or rare mats they only need to ask. I gather most mats myself and our airships bring most materia.
I trust most of the people in my fc, abut it is also about making sure you are careful with the items your fc has.

[Energy2k8]

I don't really think you know how theft works. I work at a casino, I have permission to enter soft count (where they count the money) if I take money out of this room, despite having access to this room, it's databases and safes, I lose my job. For that money belongs to my job, not me, despite me having full access to it. Based on your logic with me having full access, the keys and the codes, to my jobs ridiculous amount of money, I should be able to take it, quit, and walk out a free man and my job couldn't do anything about it, because they gave me access to this area per my job requirements.

No, you are wrong. In Final Fantasy you have permission to take stuff from the free company chest.

Edit: Quoted the wrong part of your post.

[LadyVal]

No, you are wrong. In Final Fantasy you have permission to take stuff from the free company chest.

Edit: Quoted the wrong part of your post.

Pretty sure 100% of FCs with chest access operate under the assumption of "You have access, and we are trusting you not to screw us," just as when I was working in fine jewelry I had safe combinations and security codes and my job assumed I would not screw them. The difference is, irl the police will hunt you down and punish you. GMs may or may not, in-game.

If you believe that because you can, makes it okay if you do, then I find you have questionable moral character at the very best.

The FC leader should have been more careful with the chest and equally as important, the thief (who probably scammed the FC into believing they wanted to be a participating member just for chest access, which counts as scamming in the ToS and is punishable, read it) should be punished for his actions and SE should do something about it.

[Canadane]

To those giving real life analogies, you most seem to be forgetting one thing. The rank was allowed full deposit/withdrawal access. They were given explicit permission using the permission system to take what they wanted.
There are ways to prevent this from happening. Keep page 3 on lockdown to a higher rank. Keep page 2 deposit-only. Keep page 1 full of stuff that wouldn't be the end of the world if looted. This is just one example of keeping things in check, but instead of handing over the safe combination and saying "take what you want" it's now giving access to only the minimum of items, and if they want something more important, they get an officer, manager, Godking Saley, or whatever you want to take it out for them.

It may feel like it's unfair when you're in Anethum's position, but the reality of it is, it was an oversight by Anethum as unfortunate as it was, but entirely fair dealings.

[DragonFlyy]

Other MMORPGs have no problem dealing with griefing like this with impunity

The MMO that shall not be named doesn't on the simple grounds that it was the user (ie. guild Leader)'s fault, not anything that can be controlled by the game masters.

I do know one thing Blizzard added that helps a bit, but is different situation. Making it so an authenticator has to be attached to access the guild bank. That was a stolen account (even a leaders) can't get the items with an authentocator. As far as punisment and reversal of items taken from guild banks, Blizzard gives the same answer you got. Not their fault, not going to help.

As to the post about working in a casino. There is a difference. In the casino they never told you that you could take anything you wanted and in the contract you signed to work there it is explicit that you would not steal from them. In an FC chest, if you have permission to take an item, you are completely allowed. It's not even stealing really, it's just taking items. Morally it's wrong, but it's not against the rules. If someone broke the rules to get the items, then I'd agree with you, but that person was given the right to take the items. That's why SE won't intervene. Huge difference in your analogy.