Ilberd

[Theodric]

Attacking another nation in a war doesn't suddenly make every single member of that nation or army 'evil', though. Especially when the war is caused over a genuine conflict of interests. Yes, Garlemald is the aggressor - but we don't know the full extent of their reasoning and we do know that Eorzea is far from flawless itself.

How many of the Garlean soldiers slain during this war were just following orders, I wonder? How many were killed believing that their cause was righteous? How many of those killed during the assault upon Garlean bases were non-combatants or medics that simply wanted to protect their comrades and friends? Heck, there's a quest in Western Coerthas that shows that even the Dravanians - previously thought to be mindless drones at Nidhogg's command - kept mementos of their fallen in a manner similar to what our side did.

There's a precedent for conflicts in this setting to not be black or white, even if they initially seem that way at first glance. I'd say it's far, far more likely that Garlemald as a whole isn't all that bad - including the invading forces - than Garlemald as a whole being irredeemable. If we're lucky then the developers will choose to explore that more in-depth at some point in the future, especially when Garlean plot points start to gather more momentum.

As an aside, though? War isn't pretty - and it is by no means as simple as the 'aggressor' being the 'bad guys'. That's just something civilians are fed to make them feel better about sending loyal men and women to die on the battlefield and experience the horrors of war themselves. So I'm inclined to drop this particular discussion due to clearly viewing it in a much different light than most people here.

[PArcher]

How many of the Garlean soldiers slain during this war were just following orders, I wonder?

Take a page from real life; how many Nazis that killed millions of people in the death camps were just "following orders"?

No, "following orders" isn't an excuse, and doesn't make you some innocent victim.

[Magis]

Take a page from real life; how many Nazis that killed millions of people in the death camps were just "following orders"?

No, "following orders" isn't an excuse, and doesn't make you some innocent victim.

Actually, some of the German army were conscripts of lands they took over (yay IRL parallels). How do you feel about say the Czech who were forced into the army against their will (do it or get shot)? Funny enough, if you watch Saving Private Ryan... it subtly touches on that point. After the Americans take over the beach on D-Day, there are two surrendering "Germans", with their hands up and are pleading to surrender in "German". Except they weren't, they were speaking Czech: "Please don't shoot me, I am not German, I am Czech, I didn't kill anyone!". The US soldiers didn't understand, and shot them on sight making jokes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCbW7Gkgu2U (Scene)

So let's bring it back to the Garleans; It's been established that most of the soldiers (especially the magic users since Garleans can't use magic) are from captured lands, specifically Ala Mahigo. A survivor of an ambushed battalion even says so in La Noscea, saying they weren't even Garlean and were forced into the war. He just wanted to go home and see their family again. I'd say a lot of these people are victims from both sides.

[Alberel]

Actually, some of the German army were conscripts of lands they took over (yay IRL parallels). How do you feel about say the Czech who were forced into the army against their will (do it or get shot)? Funny enough, if you watch Saving Private Ryan... it subtly touches on that point. After the Americans take over the beach on D-Day, there are two surrendering "Germans", with their hands up and are pleading to surrender in "German". Except they weren't, they were speaking Czech: "Please don't shoot me, I am not German, I am Czech, I didn't kill anyone!". The US soldiers didn't understand, and shot them on sight making jokes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCbW7Gkgu2U (Scene)

So let's bring it back to the Garleans; It's been established that most of the soldiers (especially the magic users since Garleans can't use magic) are from captured lands, specifically Ala Mahigo. A survivor of an ambushed battalion even says so in La Noscea, saying they weren't even Garlean and were forced into the war. He just wanted to go home and see their family again. I'd say a lot of these people are victims from both sides.

Thanks for reminding people of this. It is far too easy to demonise an enemy based on the actions of a few simply by association. This tendency is one of the greatest human flaws and probably the single greatest cause for Man's atrocities against fellow Man. Nothing is EVER black and white in reality and FFXIV has done a good job of reflecting this in its story so far. Even the Ascians aren't all pure evil as demonstrated by Elidibus (plus we still don't know the full story behind their motivations yet).

With regards to the "following orders" excuse... It's all too easy to say that it doesn't absolve you of your crime when you personally weren't in that situation. Any soldier to refuse such an order was shot on sight (and yes there actually WERE some). Somehow I imagine most of the people in this thread would likely have followed such orders if under the threat of being killed themselves. Humans become irrational and willing to do horrific things when their life is at stake. This is a very morally grey area.

[Frederick22]

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How many of the Garlean soldiers slain during this war were just following orders, I wonder?

This is a war, Thedric. On a war people follow orders from their superiors. This does not change the fact on who is the agressor and who has the blame. The garleans started with full agression and no merci for the conquered people.

When a dictatorship is on the power and wants to start a war of conquer, there isnt so much of what can be done.

Was the Germany different on the 2nd world war?

Despite all, its probable we will sure find our Coronel Staufbenverg, aka garlean version.