Ilberd

[Cilia]

Back on the original topic:

Omega is a gigantic war machine created by Allag, currently a scrap heap buried in Cartenau. There is no way it could be excavated and refurbished into a functional state without the Alliance noticing; furthermore, the only people who could do so all (likely) have moral objections to doing so.

So, the chances of Ilberd hijacking it are slim to none.

[Theodric]

Eh, I'm not particularly interested in addressing the flawed analogy that 'Garleans are like Hitler'. It's a very, very flawed argument and a clear case of Godwin's Law in effect. I also feel like it does the developers a major disservice - because so far they've done an excellent job at portraying antagonists and protagonists alike as very complex in terms of both their morality and their reasoning.

Yet it's clear that this isn't going anywhere, so let's just agree to disagree, eh?

[PArcher]

Eh, I'm not particularly interested in addressing the flawed analogy that 'Garleans are like Hitler'. It's a very, very flawed argument and a clear case of Godwin's Law in effect.

Except that's not the comparison being made. The atrocities from the Nazis just happen to be one of the best ways to illustrate the point; any group that did something evil because they were told to would have worked (and you'd probably give the same excuse, but whatever)

Following orders does not excuse your behavior. Just because you are told to go out and murder someone doesn't make it OK to the victim's family and friends.


The Garleans in Eorzea are here to conquer, and the tactics they are using are brutal, often immoral and just plain evil. What happened at the Waking Sands after Titan is a clear illustration of this, and if you talk to the one NPC there throughout the AAR story, you get a painting of what they did to Ala Mihgo (and its not pretty either). Then there's them wanting to exterminate anyone/thing who has the *potential* to summon a Primal (which, funnily enough, is now nearly their entire empire, maybe even themselves, after the Ishgardians effectively summoned two Primals [Shiva and Thordan])


Don't forget, "all that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing". If those invading Garleans are "good", they are doing nothing by following orders, and letting evil win.

[MaikoRaines]

The Garleans in Eorzea are here to conquer, and the tactics they are using are brutal, often immoral and just plain evil. What happened at the Waking Sands after Titan is a clear illustration of this, and if you talk to the one NPC there throughout the AAR story, you get a painting of what they did to Ala Mihgo (and its not pretty either). Then there's them wanting to exterminate anyone/thing who has the *potential* to summon a Primal (which, funnily enough, is now nearly their entire empire, maybe even themselves, after the Ishgardians effectively summoned two Primals [Shiva and Thordan]).

And this is why my lance will sing the hymn of the reaper if and when we take action against them.

[Kallera]

And this is why my lance will sing the hymn of the reaper if and when we take action against them.

genocide on the garleans?

[CyrilLucifer]

genocide on the garleans?

Because criticizing the Garleans for genocide and then threatening mass murder in return is all the rage, donchaknow?

[MaikoRaines]

genocide on the garleans?

No, just ones that get in my way. As I mentioned I am sure not all Garleans are bad people. But good people follow horrible orders and uphold horrible values in service to that evil ruler. It doesn't mean they're all bad... and it's nothing personal.

[CyrusArjuna]

I wonder why more people tend to ignore the obvious parallels between the Garleans and Romans when talking IRL inspirations. For all we know, the forced rape we heard about once in ARR was something the lower level soldiers took part of? And the brainwashing thing might have been a VIIth legion thing. I mean, Nael was brainwashed and Tempered, maybe this compelled him to Temper other soldiers? Nothing really shows them being state sanctioned like others have said. The Romans conscripted soldiers from the territories they captured, but they tended to reward service to the Empire with citizenship that afforded them certain rights and privileges that non-citizens didn't get. So far our picture of Garlemald is biased in Eorzea's favor, just like how our view of the Dravanians and Ishgard were colored by lack of information.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Much of the allegations against the Garlean army come from people who have escaped from their held territory, which is to say, from Ala Mhigo. That city is held by the XIVth Legion, which, far from being some rogue soldiers, is (was?) one of Garlemald's foremost and most-celebrated military forces*. Everything that's leveled against them - implied prostitution (not rape, actual prostitution), forced conscription followed by brainwashing via brutality, etc - speaks to ongoing military policy against a captured population. Furthermore, they've held the city for a long time - it was the first foothold in Eorzea, pre-dating van Darnus' arrival from Othard by a significant amount. And speaking of Othard, the picture painted of the Doman occupation by its refugees isn't exactly brighter, which would imply similarly brutal tactics being employed by the other conquering Legions. Now, these are obviously biased accounts, but nothing has actually been presented yet in-game that gives another view. That could obviously change, but until it does, the impression that the real-world storytellers want us to have of Garlemald-as-conquerors is pretty clearly not a positive one. As has been so astutely pointed out before in this thread, this game hasn't shied from giving shades of grey to its world and story before; if the dev team wanted us to view Garlemald with shades of grey, these accounts would have something balanced against them. We'll have to see as time goes on.

(As for citizenship, much of what we know comes from the Garlean hierarchy books in the Great Gubal Library, easily the most un-biased accounts available. We know that they don't afford the same citizenship considerations to the people of conquered territories, as Rome did; instead, they're fodder for the Garlean war machine.)
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*Yes, I know the XIVth Legion is effectively rogue post-Calamity. I don't think that's especially relevant; Gaius never lost his loyalty to the Empire, even after they abandoned him, and anyways they were occupying Ala Mhigo well before that.

[CyrusArjuna]

Eh, was just trying to play Devil's Advocate. Has the brainwashing thing come up since the 1.0 story? I honestly can't recall a mention of it in ARR...but I might have missed something like the Garlean citizenship thing I mentioned. And the forced prostitution thing? I know there was a mention of that one NPC who was birthed from rape but again, don't remember prostitution being brought up