3.2 PLD: Clemency and Divine Veil

[winsock]

For 3.2, I know many people have been focusing on the STR/VIT changes. Overall, I think this patch has resulted in many positive (albeit not perfect) changes for tanks. There are a couple of changes though were SE is moving in the wrong direction in my opinion. These were the changes to Clemency and Divine Veil.

I know these skills were fairly underutilized and were rightly a point of interest for SE to address in a patch, but both of these skills had a single positive attribute in their early implementations: They had a very unique respect for role boundaries.

For example:
Divine Veil allowed the Paladin to produce a very solid AoE barrier... but those serving in the "healer" role had the responsibility of triggering it.

Clemency is a powerful heal, but its 3 second cast time meant it wasnt very useful unless the player in the "healer" role dropped the ball. Or in other words, the PLD could only heal what the healer wasnt going to heal.

The reason I believe this to be a positive trait is that in any given round, there is only so much healing do. A fast heal from clemency is a heal / save a healer can no longer perform. An absorb from DV is damage a healer cant take an action to heal or mitigate. This is in a game where there is so little to heal that healers are generally expected to be providing dps.

I wanted to suggest some changes that would preserve the positives from the early implementations, but still bring these skills into a healthier state. I was thinking something along the lines of:
Divine Veil becomes a more powerful version of mantra
Clemeny becomes insta-cast a buff to be applied to healers to improve their healing (maybe even via spell speed so that it has a wider scope of use.)

[RecklessLion]

Hmm I don't think your idea is bad I guess it's a both way type of thing. Your version of divine veil is to boost the healing percentage as a party while it's original is to mitigate damage by using a percentage of the PLD health. Honestly I rather keep the DV original all because the shield being there helps the healers top off any health that is loss. A party shouldn't be taking consistent damage as a whole to need a stronger mantra. Clemency hmmm I like that idea help the healer support the tank and party that's actually really good. Brings awesome utility.

[Februs]

I wanted to suggest some changes that would preserve the positives from the early implementations, but still bring these skills into a healthier state. I was thinking something along the lines of:
Divine Veil becomes a more powerful version of mantra
Clemeny becomes insta-cast a buff to be applied to healers to improve their healing (maybe even via spell speed so that it has a wider scope of use.)

These are interesting ideas, but there are a few problems with them. The biggest of which is the lack of solo-utility.

One of the biggest gripes that people have about Pld right now is that several of their moves have limited solo applications and niche uses. Tempered Will, Cover, Divine Veil, Convalescence and Clemency were the biggest offenders. In regards to Convalescence, in particular, 3.0 went miles in fixing it's utility for Pld's. Once Pld's picked up Clemency they suddenly got solo-utility out of Convalescence because they could actually self-heal, for a change. Clemency is pretty sturdy on it's own (even before 3.2), but if you take away it's current value then you are removing Pld's self-heal (which is already fairly limited, given it's mp cost) and destroying any solo utility that Convalescence gained from it.

Further, both of your proposed changes are basically variant forms of a skill that Pld's already have, which is Convalescence. Pld's (more so than War's and Drk's) can already buff healer output. Giving them a mantra to buff party healing is unnecessary (and would actually give the healer even less to do). It would also slot Pld's to compete against Mnk's (a current problem that Drk's have with Dragon kick vs. Delirium Blade). Giving them a mantra and another buff to healer efficiency is flat out overkill. Healers could just pop a regen and ignore everything other than Tank Busters.

[Anubis_Nephthys]

Clemency is pretty sturdy on its own (even before 3.2)

What do you mean by this? Clemency has been nerfed. It scales on attack power, and they nerfed our attack power.

[Brian_]

Completely asinine topic.

The entire point of Divine Veil is that it is PLD's raid mitigation ability.

It is the same in function as Storm's Path, Reprisal, and (to a lesser extent) Delirium. You prep and apply it before some significant raid-wide AoE.

The pros of DV is that it's not a debuff so it can be used without a target and it's a stronger one-time shield. That's balanced by Path, Reprisal, and Delirium having significantly higher up-time.

The blatantly obvious imbalance before was that WAR didn't need another class to apply Storm's Path. DRKs didn't need to be healed by someone else to activate Reprisal or Delirium. Their raid mitigation utility was independently controlled. PLD was the only one that got shafted (as usual) and needed babysitting for basic utility.

[Februs]

What do you mean by this? Clemency has been nerfed. It scales on attack power, and they nerfed our attack power.

I never said that it wasn't. I just said that it was "sturdy," both now and before 3.2.

Even with the nerfed potency, Clemency heals a pretty hefty amount of Hp. 1200 potency is no joke, and it can still be buffed with Convalescence, providing solo-utility for a traditionally party-only move. Besides, Clemency's nerf with our attack power was partially supplemented by it's reduced cast time. What we lost in single burst healing, we gained in frequency of application. It's not like the move was suddenly rendered useless just because it heals for a little less than before.

[SpookyGhost]

DV is p good, I dunno why people constantly want it changed. It's one of the key advantages of bringing PLD in A7S, among other fights. Clemency is still weird, though.

[Seku]

DV is p good, I dunno why people constantly want it changed. It's one of the key advantages of bringing PLD in A7S, among other fights. Clemency is still weird, though.

Just wish they'd get rid of the annoying requirement of needing a heal. Finding it pretty useful in the Seph EX fight as well.

[Synestra]

Just wish they'd get rid of the annoying requirement of needing a heal. Finding it pretty useful in the Seph EX fight as well.

Well atleast it made Cure usefull to cross-class, it would still nice if caster itself got shield aswell but luckily we have SS for that.

[Kosmos992k]

Why am I not surprised to see you posting this about those changes? You've constantly been in opposition to PLD getting Battle raise becuase that somehow erodes the boundaries - except it doesn't, but that's a differnet discussion.

What interests me though is why someone who posts like a dyed in the wool White Mage lifer keeps coming to the tank forum and undercutting the Paladin's role. One of the things that makes Paladin different is the access to conjurer abilities. It's the second class of the two needed to acquire the Paladin job after all, so why the hostility towards PLD having some utility from their CNJ abilities such as cure and raise?

So, why do you now jump in here to undercut the changes made to Divine Veil and Clemency? Once again it seems to be because you think PLD is somehow treading on the toes of those precious White Mages out there. Well, guess what, I play White Mage also, and my wife mains it. I can't see the problem you do. As for my wife, she doesn't see the problem either. Also she doesn't understand why Raise requires a battle raise trait for CNJ in the first place either. Because Arcanist (not a healer) gets Resurrection at level 22 which allows battle raise without a trait at all. A non healer with a battle raise ability *before* Conjurer gets their trait at level 28? Sounds like boundaries are blurring there. Why aren't you banging on about that?

So how come you are constantly complaining about PLD blurring boundaries when we actually need Conjurer to at least 15 just to become a Paladin? Seems like basing our job on two classes one a DoW and the other DoM with differing roles intentionally blurs the boundaries. In which case, I can see no real argument that somehow the changes to Clemency and/or Divine Veil somehow go too far.