3.2 PLD: Clemency and Divine Veil

**winsock** · 03-09-2016 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Nyalia

Looking purely at the total amount of healing that needs to be done throughout a battle, the PLD skill that reduces it the most isn't Clemency. It's Shield Oath. Shield Oath on the MT is taking away 20% of the MT damage dealt during the fight, meaning there's 20% less total healing because of that one skill.

Everyone has partial responsibility over their own HP bar.
The healer as partial responsibility over everyone's HP bar.

Clemency affects the latter.

Shield Oath is supportive and improves on what a healer is already doing.
Clemency can be used as a substitution for specific actions a healer should have taken.

To put the shoe on the other foot:
What if healers had a skill that dumped their aggro onto a tank, with say, idk, a 1-2 cooldown?
WHM sprints ahead in a dungeon, body aggros a bunch of mobs, uses assize and maybe a swiftcast-ed medica II, then transfers the aggro to you? It's your responsibility to use skills AoE threat skills. Would this be okay? Healers occasionally being able to take care of your AoE threat for you?

**Malicewolf** · 03-09-2016 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by winsock

To put the shoe on the other foot:
What if healers had a skill that dumped their aggro onto a tank, with say, idk, a 1-2 cooldown?
WHM sprints ahead in a dungeon, body aggros a bunch of mobs, uses assize and maybe a swiftcast-ed medica II, then transfers the aggro to you? It's your responsibility to use skills AoE threat skills. Would this be okay? Healers occasionally being able to take care of your AoE threat for you?

You mean the skill that exists for NIN's (minus the obviously game breaking CD). A NIN could run and grab aggro on everything and then just shadewalker the tank and use a katon to get aggro on everything transferred. Or even a death blossom. He can also use smokebomb to lower enmity on whatever target he wishes. You wish to tell me this is game breaking as well? Just get rid of a NIN who already had these game breaking moves you are describing (and didn't even notice).

**Nyalia** · 03-09-2016 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by winsock

To put the shoe on the other foot:
What if healers had a skill that dumped their aggro onto a tank, with say, idk, a 1-2 cooldown?
WHM sprints ahead in a dungeon, body aggros a bunch of mobs, uses assize and maybe a swiftcast-ed medica II, then transfers the aggro to you? It's your responsibility to use skills AoE threat skills. Would this be okay? Healers occasionally being able to take care of your AoE threat for you?

So like, a NIN healer? That sounds awesome! I'd love the utility that gives. Just like when you have a good NIN in the party, you can lead with DPS combos and get that Goring Blade DoT ticking away several seconds early because you wouldn't have to worry about your threat for the first bit of the fight.

EDIT: I'm ignoring the "cd of 1-2 seconds" bit with the implication of no cost because that's just ridiculous. If you're trying to draw a parallel to Clemency, then the skill would cost 400-500 TP to use. Just like with Clemency, the CD wouldn't actually be "1-2 seconds," it'd be quite a long time after the first two uses because your pool would have to recover.

**winsock** · 03-09-2016 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Nyalia

That sounds awesome!

sry i meant 1-2 mins. If you're into this sort of thing there are games like GW2 that really dont enforce traditional Tank, Healer, DPS roles at all. The end result IMO is a near-spamfest; although, a buddy of mine told me recently they were adding things like taunts.

At any rate, if you'd be fine with that type of aggro implementation for a healer, we're just two different ppl, with 2 different sets of beliefs and probably wont see eye to eye anywhere on this.

**Daeana** · 03-09-2016 02:10 AM

Winsock are your implication's and suggestions directed towards PVP content mainly or to PVE content

**Kosmos992k** · 03-09-2016 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by winsock

What if healers had a skill that dumped their aggro onto a tank, with say, idk, a 1-2 cooldown?

Shroud of Saints in effect does this. The healer dumps half their aggro instantly and very quickly the tank can easily regain the aggro lead on any/all mobs pon the healer simply by using their normal aggro maintenance skills. The net effect is that the healer shed aggro to the tank.

WHM sprints ahead in a dungeon, body aggros a bunch of mobs, uses assize and maybe a swiftcast-ed medica II, then transfers the aggro to you?

I've seen healers pull a pack and bring them bak to the tank expecting the tak to take them, and popping shroud of saints just as they arrive at thet tank. The net effect is exactly what you describe. Oh, and while we're talking about someone using sprint, I consider the fact that DoM players have no penalty for sprinting to be a clear lack of balance. Sprinting does not in any way affect the ability of DoM to do their job, while Sprinting cripples any DoM, especially Paladin. A Paladin has to manage their TP, HP and MP, all but one of our primary battle skills consume TP, and other skills (including Flash) consume large quantities of MP.

It's your responsibility to use skills AoE threat skills. Would this be okay? Healers occasionally being able to take care of your AoE threat for you?

That's really not at all an equivalent situation to allowing PLD to possibly execute a battle-raise, or for that matter use Clemency and Divine Veil. Those are all situational skills, and frankly, even with battle raise capability, the 8-second cast time and large MP consumption make the use of Raise extremely situational.

Your example has the healer intentionally sprinting ahead and proactively face-pulling mobs. That's literally usurping the primary role of the tank. Situational 'healing' skills such as Clemency, Divine Veil and (assuming we had it) battle raise do not even remotely tread on the primary role of a healer. Even if you can propose theoretical situations where 1 PLD can save a wipe by using HG, and raising a healer, it can easily be countered by pointing out that the same PLD would be better popping the LB before everyone falls, or if the healer sees the wipe coming, they pop their LB and all is well again. Those well neglected tank and healer limit breaks are there for a reason, it's just that the community has fixated on burning bosses making the LB mandatory for finishing the boss, or a phase.

**Daeana** · 03-09-2016 01:48 AM

the way I look at it is they have finally brought back the old school feel to paladin.

Clemency is expensive you can use it twice MAYBE 3 times in a row if you chain skills correctly so that is about 3/4 of my health on natural heals but if I get a crit, my crits are for over 9000 hp healed which is about half my health on a single shot and close to full health for most the rest of my party. This has finally brought back my supplement DIVINE TANK, with curing abilities that has always been in Final Fantasy series. I know this is not FFXI but my paladin from that realm was always casting cure on myself and flash to maintain hate. it was included in my rotation to keep enmity at that point OR i used it to harm undead.

Divine Veil is now like an in combat AOE Stoneskin and I think it is amazing. That absorbs 10% of my Max HP which is close to 2000 Hp pretty spot on for a stone skin in combat I wouldn't mind if it did 15-20%

Our limit break now is what rampart use to be and it changes on degrees of LB build up but I am still slightly unimpressed with LB and is personal touch to each class. I think it lacks luster and flavor.

**Malicewolf** · 03-09-2016 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Daeana

Divine Veil is not a in combat AOE Stone skin and I think it is amazing I just created a shield that absorbs 9000 damage on a crit save or 4000 if I healed somebody else cause half that crit was given back to me. either way you look at this this is an amazing skill. I have found now that I am relied on a bit more in parties to USE THIS COMBO and my healer stays in DPS mode longer even to the point where I have died a few times. While on unhappy with the death I was not unhappy with the teamwork DPS that may progressive party had been laying down.

Did they change DV to be based off the heal? I thought it was always 10% of the user's max hp, regardless of any other circumstance. Just curious if it was changed and i didn't notice ^^

**Daeana** · 03-09-2016 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Malicewolf

Did they change DV to be based off the heal? I thought it was always 10% of the user's max hp, regardless of any other circumstance. Just curious if it was changed and i didn't notice ^^

Malice I could be wrong I though it was worded as off the heal let me check now

I did just check it I stand corrected I thought it was based off the heal I am incorrect please forgive me it is 10% of Max HP but still for me that is 2000 hp easily

**Nyalia** · 03-09-2016 02:11 AM

Just keep in mind that DV doesn't affect the user. It shields the rest of the party for 10% of the user's max HP.

Thread: 3.2 PLD: Clemency and Divine Veil

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Hybrid View