is WAR the best MT now?

[Reynhart]

The only way you can stop tanks from thinking about their contribution to gDPS

3.0 and 3.1 were far past the point of just thinking about their contribution to DPS

Look at the recent threads...
Some people would go as far of stopping playing a tank before considering doing slighty more enmity combos or staying longer in tank stance...

[TouchandFeel]

I'm honestly okay with the design and concept of Butcher's being the emnity combo for WAR as it works with their general feel and combos to build up stacks mechanics.

I feel the issue is that DRK and PLD don't have strong enough equivalents within their own mechanic niches .

DRK has DA+PS but the increase to the multiplier is imo too low and so it doesn't quite justify using up a DA for it. If the DA+PS multiplier was higher and it got a bit of a potency boost too, say 360 so it's still lower than DA+SE but helps alleviate the MP->DPS loss from DA and no Syphon. Essentially make DA+PS a better spike agro ability to help make it more on par with the consistent build of agro from Butcher's being used so that DRK's will want to begin weaving it in more during fights.

As for PLD, that is a tougher one since they don't have anything working off their mechanics niche that could just be tweaked to bridge this gap. I'll just throw out some random ideas, some of which have obvious flaws but maybe someone could build off one. Maybe make it so blocks generate agro (obvious weakness in magic heavy fights, potential huge boost in AoE agro in speed runs/mass pulls). Ooh, here's one I like, make it so Cover reduces the emnity of the targeted party member and generates emnity for the PLD sort of adding a "emnity leech" utility to it (along with this, Cover still needs a shorter cooldowns and greater range imo).

[Aaliyahrose]

I OT Sephirot EX as PLD currently. But when I need to MT, I feel like it's easier for the party to stay alive if you use Hallowed Ground for when people mess up stacking DPS left, Healers/OT right (or however groups do it) to save the party from wiping; including yourself as the MT if used at the right time.

If the PLD OT can use the Divine Veil > Clemency before hard hitting magic hits, it can really make a difference between a DPS member hitting 37 HP and dying from double stacking circles.

PLD can be a great OT in terms of damage, but must provide support for increased survivability.

[Nathair]

3.0 and 3.1 were far past the point of just thinking about their contribution to DPS

Look at the recent threads...
Some people would go as far of stopping playing a tank before considering doing slighty more enmity combos or staying longer in tank stance...

Pray forgive me, but we must draw a clear line here.
There's a difference between tanks knowing their job and stance dancing to be efficient, speed stuff up/help the raid dps (and because it was fun), and tanks that never questioned why people said to tank in STR, why and, above everything, how to stance dance.
Someone said "tanks should go with STR and tank in DPS Stance now!", and half the tank population just followed without knowing how to even properly tank.
We're talking about competent people that know their job inside out VS people that just did as someone said with no questions.


I believe you're talking about the latter category, because in no duty, ever, when I had a good tank I felt somewhat burdened by their being in DPS stance as a healer or offended as a DPS.
There's no way ever a competent tank is going to focus solely its DPS and forget to do it's primary job.

But I really liked my Fell Cleave crits

The only way you can stop tanks from thinking about their contribution to gDPS is by literally making all their skills do 0 damage and just have +enmity or +debuff or w/e.

Please don't give SE ideas.
They might think this is actually viable.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Dungeons:
Paladin
Warrior
Dark Knight

Raids:
Warrior (just because of DR)
Paladin
Dark Knight

Soloing
Paladin
Dark Knight
Warrior

[Reynhart]

We're talking about competent people that know their job inside out VS people that just did as someone said with no questions.

Problem is, the forum is not where "bad tanks" or "good tanks" spend their time. It's where "vocal tanks" do.
And wether or not you know how to play, resigning from tanking because they decrease your DPS is a really weird mentality.

[BattleGrace]

Dungeons:
Paladin
Warrior
Dark Knight

Raids:
Warrior (just because of DR)
Paladin
Dark Knight

Soloing
Paladin
Dark Knight
Warrior

posts like this realy shit me off, you legit know nothing, it doesn't matter what you think is the best or not. there isn't one singular best, stop being part of the problem. you can not compare like that, thats not how you compare tanks, you cant say PLD is the best for duties period or WAR the best for Raids, they arn't nor is DRK, they all fill very sepcific niches and you need to open your eyes to that.

[vigioX-Sun]

there is not such thing as the "best tank", it all goes down to the skill of the player an how familiar he is with the fight..
ppl are just never satisfy not matter how many changes they bring..

[Disc]

It is true that a fending tank would have actually seen a boost in enmity generation with the patch.
Which is funny and useful for your every day roulette kind of stuff.

But for a more serious raider-type tank in strength, they got hit for 15-20% of their attack power, which is a 15-20% enmity nerf. Which ends up being a larger DPS loss, all considered, since you can't stance dance so readily any more.

If you're comparing full STR build dummy then vs full STR build dummy parses now, sure, there was a noticeable loss in DPS. But I haven't seen many dummies in Savage or Sephirot, and unless I've missed out on the new fad, crafted/mixed builds are still better for progression. Those builds have taken roughly 10% off the dummy parse & a variable amount in practice that I'd argue favors PLD with their increase in ShO damage.

[Violette]

there is not such thing as the "best tank", it all goes down to the skill of the player an how familiar he is with the fight..
ppl are just never satisfy not matter how many changes they bring..

Warrior though.