is WAR the best MT now?

[vigioX-Sun]

Warrior though.

also a PLD an DRK

[MagiusNecros]

I think the issue here is of course is Warrior can do anything it wants and perform decently while PLD and DRK have to either fight for MT slot or have to provide a specific niche in a specific fight that only they excel at.

The way I see it you can always bring a WAR or even 2 but with a PLD or DRK you'll sometimes have to build a group around the type of Tank class you are using. Which may or may not be fine for some people.

[Disc]

PLD/DRK isn't much different from WAR/WAR in terms of efficiency lost these days. WAR takes a fairly severe hit in MT damage due to lost potency/crit/equilibrium & both PLD/DRK have had their DPS/TP boosted.

[RecklessLion]

Lyth said it best. WAR is a great class but I can't say it's the best MT. You have to rely on healer and your self heals to top insane damage. They lack base mitigation aka grit ShO meaning their damage intake spikes. If you call that being a superior tank I'm not sure what to say. They require more work and focus of a fight to tank properly and even then they have to hope healer is backing them up. Right now best MT for trials type of fights goes to PLD, perfect mitigation and now more than enough damage to maintain great aggro without spamming 123 combos. Dungeons I have to give it to DRK no tank can AoE like them meaning dungeon clear times with them are normally faster when I use them. Don't get it wrong WAR is far from weak but they fall in between because self heals makes for solid mitigation and best damage out of the tanks and bring great utility. I think WAR are the best OT MT ummmmm no but still solid as a MT.

[Synestra]

WAR MT + PLD OT offers some neat synegry atleast on Midas normal, due huge amount of vul's and resistance downs OT PLD can soak pretty much all of them with Cover. Tho im not sure if this works on Savage but if it does that might open new strats for some encounters, also Clemency has alot more use now and it feels good when you see big fat 10k+ cleme crit on your WAR MT after TB.

[Violette]

also a PLD an DRK

M8 you got to understand. When damage is based primarily around tank busters and short damage phases, warrior will always be king in this game.
You just can't get around it's DPS combo being massive enmity, the power of unchained+berserk, the flexibility of IB/IB>INF>IB, storm's dual utilities, the ability to smoothly stance dance, etc.

It's just the gap between WAR mt and PLD/DRK OT is much smaller than the War OT to PLD OT gap (then to DRK OT). I love my drk as much as Syzy loves his, but even I have to admit at this point war is the better mt with how raids are designed. If we were back in T1-5, it'd be different. PLD and DRK's better constant mitigation sources would bridge the gap.

[Syzygian]

I do have to say that SE has a lot of nerve leaving PLD/DRK stances on the GCD with all of these tank swaps. They're straight up harder to do and time precisely and happen too frequently for you to significantly make up for the loss of turning the damn things on/off in the first place.

Making them not interrupt combos is nice but in practice it sets up and encourages techniques that detract from success. You have to activate Grit in advance of your combo, not during, if you want the combo to actually get hate for you after you voke. So you not only take the DPS loss from the GCD but the loss of having to activate it in advance if your timing isn't extremely precise.

Afterwards, I go into the same fight on my WAR and its just such fucking easymode, hitting sunder and then double-weaving your stance and voke in the same GCD leading into BB... like... seriously? Its a joke.

Its not even that WAR is OP at this point, its that SE straight up is making PLD and DRK harder to effectively and efficiently play.

[Reynhart]

You have to activate Grit in advance of your combo, not during, if you want the combo to actually get hate for you after you voke. So you not only take the DPS loss from the GCD but the loss of having to activate it in advance if your timing isn't extremely precise.

I didn't find it that difficult, playing DRK and PLD. You just do the first two steps of your enmity combo, change stance, provoke, and do the third step. We also benefit right away from out tank stance if the swap is just before a big hit, and we can also pop any mitigation skill without spending a GCD and while not having our tank stance.
I think it's a fair trade-off now.

And, are we still poiting fingers for DPS loss off ONE GCD ? Again ?

[Syzygian]

snip

Its not that it is inherently hard, its just so much more laughably easy on WAR. I don't see how that's even up for discussion.

And its not just one GCD. Its one for every tank swap, and there are many in savage atm. And they feel clunky as well with on-GCD stances.

Double-weaving your stance with voke? I'm sorry, but I'll take that any day of the week over instant mitigation, that's what CDs are for. And yes IB is on the GCD but guess what isn't? Every other CD the job has. Oh and SW and EQ are oGCD as well. EZPZ. I can't count the amount of times I've eaten a TB, NAKED, as a WAR, and just yolo-healed back up with SW+EQ.

No other job's stances or passive buffs need a GCD to activate. NIN poisons, MNK fists, cleric stance, none of them. Cleric stance is insanely powerful for being oGCD. Swaps INT/MND and then buffs damage dealt on top of that. I'd happily keep the MP costs of the Oaths/Grit, and even have a longer recast time so we must remain committed to the stance for longer and not leap in and out every 10 SECONDS like WARs can, if they were simply oGCD.

Some WAR mains really perplex me. They'll go on and on about how good their job is, the best in the game, and it shouldn't be nerfed, the others should be buffed, but then the nanosecond a PLD or DRK starts to talk about any of these hypothetical buffs, or think they're entitled to any of the things that make WAR so good, it suddenly becomes too much for people to handle, and all they can do is trump up perceived on-paper disadvantages that WAR supposedly has that do very little to actually gimp the job in practice.

tl;dr "no nerfs pls buff other tanks, w8 no, don't buff the other tanks, then they might actually be well designed like us, can't have that no sir" - this is what I feel like i'm reading sometimes. Feel free to disagree.

[MaethusXion]

I still find it funny that when I run VA and any trials SINCE 3.01 I don't see any WARs stepping up to MT any bosses. I haven't run into any "WAR MT ONRY" players since Alex Normal came out(pre-Alex Normal it was only Trials and 2.x content, but even the 2.x content they've backed out of doing anything but DPS...), and I've only seen one WAR willing to MT(he's in my FC). I see threads like this, and I just shake my head that I don't ever see a WAR stepping up(or demanding to) MT since then. Aside from my FC WAR I've talked to ONE person in a dual-/multi-tank area that said they MT on their WAR, but they were on a DPS at the time, so they didn't MT that round.