Healer Enmity increase?

[Nekotee]

Since 3.2
I did not have trouble
Especially with AST who got a massive enmity reduction

Funny thing our pur VIT (pré 3.2) drk got better
And the war full str (pré 3.2) got worse

As healer even spam healing would not give me enmity

[Synrin]

Yeah, it's about the tanks, as these guys have said, not healers.

[Ghishlain]

Eh... what? Who lost 15% of their damage now? Overall, my damage has substantially increased as a paladin on account of higher damage ratings on skills, a 5% damage gain in tank stance (previously reduced outgoing damage by 20%, and is now 15%) and vitality now plays a substantial role in damage so anyone who geared for VIT (like, actual tank gear) would have seen vast improvements.

Couple this with the enmity boost gain, and there's no reason tanks should be losing aggro. This goes double for paladins who rely more on Flash than they do on raw DPS to maintain aggro, since it was fixed aggro to start with, and now awards more enmity.

Where is this misinformation about tanks losing damage coming from?

It's actually not misinformation, though to be fair my statement was also only speaking to one branch of the tanking dynamic so I shall rephrase and clarify:

Full VIT turtle tanks gained approximately 10% additional damage due to the tank changes. PLDs gained more due to the class buffs received at the same time.
FUll STR optimized DPS tanks lost approximately 15% damage due to the tank changes.

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Though adding to the discussion further - I also agree that healers should be cautious of healing after the robots merge and become Brute Justice because it's considered a new mob and tanks will need to establish hate on said target. I had an amusing sight as a WHM I was partnered up with in A8N decided to pop both Medica II and Assize immediately after the damage went out. I guess they Tetra'd too after my PLD tank Provoke'd Brute Justice because it wouldn't leave the WHM alone, eventually popping "DOUBLUUUUUU ROCKETUUUU PUNCHUUUUUUU" on the WHM and absolutely crushing her >>;

I know I shouldn't be laughing but I was laughing exceptionally hard after I saw it happen as I popped my Swiftcast + Ascend.

[Vaer]

A8 has a lot of new mob spawns so if the healers are keeping medica II or regen aspected on the entire time or spamming aoe heals when they spawn it will get a bit annoying for the tanks to get hate, especially when the final phase starts where it does a bunch of damage to everyone. There are things healers can do to help a bit.

On the tank end, it's easily fixed with a provoke and then a decent enmity generator like halone/butcher.

[Nekotee]

In A8 the only moment you need you group full life is shared damage and jump
Otherwise why would i burn mana for them 8D
I have a tank to patch and a boss to DPS XD

[eaudaemon]

I would have to thank everybody that responded to this thread, all the post here has been quite informative to me and for that I am truly thankful.

I was getting concerned, and as far as I can tell its not just the tanks that has to do some adjustments, us healers too

[Arkenne]

Back in the day when relic came out I went to the expert roulette as a WAR and had troubles holding hate against a pair of i210 weapon user DPS... towards the end of the dungeon I noticed it was because I was using the i170 weapon... I didn't lose hate at all but had to stance dance a lot...

Pretty much the aggro feels like that right now.

[Lemuria]

FUll STR optimized DPS tanks lost approximately 15% damage due to the tank changes.

If you're fully strength geared, you're far from 'optimized'. That goes for pre and post-patch. Furthermore, the calculations are still wrong. My guess is they calculated it based on tanks using the same gear that they used to - meaning full strength gear. So it's only natural they would see a significant decrease due to the new vitality requirement.

Now, if you compare the old full strength tanks with today's vitality tanks you will find they're very much on par in terms of damage when using equivalent gear. Of course, no one does this because everyone's still lamenting the fact they only saved up tomes for strength accessories.

[Cherie]

Many tanks, in previous gordian savage and such tanked quite a bit in the "dps" stances. That became a sort of standard since many of the various guides people wrote and reddit discussions talked about trying to meet the tight dps checks at the time by having tanks spending more time not in the "tank" stance. While the people that actually wrote these guides are probably having no issues, the people that read them likely are. If they are not adjusting and simply waiting for a updated guide to come out instead of realizing the game has changed...they are going to have a bad time... because everyone wants to be doing it the "right" way...

Tanks actually got a threat *BUFF* believe it or not. But they have to be in a tank stance to take advantage of it. If not in a tank stance, their threat is somewhat less than before... hence the issues with them losing threat. People that choose to play tanks are often stubborn... I know I am atleast XD...

[Ghishlain]

If you're fully strength geared, you're far from 'optimized'. That goes for pre and post-patch. Furthermore, the calculations are still wrong. My guess is they calculated it based on tanks using the same gear that they used to - meaning full strength gear. So it's only natural they would see a significant decrease due to the new vitality requirement.

Now, if you compare the old full strength tanks with today's vitality tanks you will find they're very much on par in terms of damage when using equivalent gear. Of course, no one does this because everyone's still lamenting the fact they only saved up tomes for strength accessories.

I hate to turn this into the now very dead VIT tank versus STR tank discussion but I want to respond to this.

I think it's pretty clear I was address how the 3.2 STR/VIT changes affected the two different gearing paradigms but I will clarify my comment even further:

Full VIT turtle tanks gained approximately 10% additional damage from the STR/VIT changes introduced in 3.2 compared to the exact same gear in 3.1. PLDs gained more due to the class buffs received at the same time.
FUll STR optimized DPS tanks lost approximately 15% damage from the STR/VIT changes introduced in 3.2 compared to the exact same gear in 3.1.

Here is a Reddit post comparing pre-3.2 and post-3.2 Tank DPS numbers.

The relevant numbers from that thread:

Sword Oath PLD
STR @ 3.1 - DPS = 955.47
VIT @ 3.1 - DPS = 693.27

STR @ 3.2 - DPS = 803.12 (~15.9% DPS loss compared to 3.1 STR)
VIT @ 3.2 - DPS = 804.75 (~16.1% DPS increased compared to 3.1 VIT [OR] ~15.8% DPS loss compared to 3.1 STR)

Shield Oath PLD
STR @ 3.1 - DPS = 671.54
VIT @ 3.1 - DPS = 493.80

STR @ 3.2 - DPS = 566.95 (~15.6% DPS loss compared to 3.1 STR)
VIT @ 3.2 - DPS = 599.62 (~21.4% DPS increased compared to 3.1 VIT [OR] ~10.3% DPS loss compared to 3.1 STR)

Darkside ONLY DRK
STR @ 3.1 - DPS = 1,034.95
VIT @ 3.1 - DPS = 765.26

STR @ 3.2 - DPS = 835.06 (~19.3% DPS loss compared to 3.1 STR)
VIT @ 3.2 - DPS = 843.29 (~10.2% DPS increased compared to 3.1 VIT [OR] ~18.5% DPS loss compared to 3.1 STR)

So, yes my math is approximately right. Also Pre-3.2 STR tanks were optimized for DPS. These were the tanks willing to forgo some HP to dramatically increase both their DPS output and their threat generation (by a rather impressive 35% with the above listed numbers) compared to their VIT geared brethren.

And no, your statement about how current i210 VIT tanks have comparable damage to i210 STR tanks in 3.1 is incorrect. Based on the math above, i210 VIT tanks in 3.2 are still weaker than i210 STR tanks in 3.1 even with the VIT change. And also shows that my statements are true.

Tanks using STR accessories pre-3.2 witnessed a damage drop post-3.2.
Tanks using VIT accessories pre-3.2 witnessed a damage increase post-3.2.

So, now I have to ask:

Where is this misinformation that VIT tanks in 3.2 are doing comparable damage to STR tanks in 3.1 when using equivalent gear coming from?