Dark Knight changes needed

[Judah_Brandt]

Because under the effect of Shield Oath Paladins can recover HP by using... Oh wait no. Then I mean Paladins can have Sword Oath up at the... Oh wait no. Then Warrior... I'm not even going to bother making a sentence about Warrior.

Move along, everyone, this yet another crazy troll post by Nektulos. Please stop.

[Ashkendor]

The proposed idea was lowering the damage penalty the player receives on his/her attacks with Grit on.

Oh, that makes a little more sense. It was worded ambiguously before he edited it and given some of the ideas OP has come up with, I wouldn't have put it past him to want to actually lower the amount of damage that Grit prevents. >.>

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Because under the effect of Shield Oath Paladins can recover HP by using... Oh wait no. Then I mean Paladins can have Sword Oath up at the... Oh wait no. Then Warrior... I'm not even going to bother making a sentence about Warrior.

Move along, everyone, this yet another crazy troll post by Nektulos. Please stop.

Clemency.

10 char.

[Fernosaur]

Move along, everyone, this yet another crazy troll post by Nektulos. Please stop.

Can we deviate the topic and make it about elephant shrews, then?

TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THAT SNOUT

[Jpec07]

Clemency.

10 char.

Oh what the hell, I'll take your bait.

DRK has natural, rotational healing. If you DA every SE, or even every other SE, you get 100% damage as HP recovery. Even if you're not playing for maximum mitigation or survival, and are focused on maximizing your DPS, you're going to get self-healing on DRK just for doing your rotation. It's even more pronounced on WAR, where a substantial portion of your healing comes just from rotational abilities that don't even require Defiance.

And your answer for that is Clemency?

Clemency is PLD's only notable self-heal. But given that it (still) takes away 2 GCDs to function, there is no possible way that you can compare it to the self-healing that DRK and WAR get.

DRK doesn't really need any kind of boost. They're still ahead of PLD from most parses I've seen, both in MT DPS and OT DPS, and they still have a very good showing from a mitigation perspective (Dark Dance has a much better showing in Midas than Gordias, to my understanding). There are some parity issues that could stand to be addressed, like how some abilities work against one another, but a good DRK knows how to avoid those circumstances, and so generally isn't affected by them (they know not to throw DA Dark Dance at the same time as Blood Price, as an example).

If you're having a hard time managing your MP, then I hate to join the choir, but you need to learn how to play better. And if you're worried about your DPS being surpassed by a skilled PLD now, then that also means you need to learn how to play better. DRK naturally puts out better numbers than PLD, even still, the gap just isn't as wide as it used to be.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Oh what the hell, I'll take your bait.

DRK has natural, rotational healing. If you DA every SE, or even every other SE, you get 100% damage as HP recovery. Even if you're not playing for maximum mitigation or survival, and are focused on maximizing your DPS, you're going to get self-healing on DRK just for doing your rotation. It's even more pronounced on WAR, where a substantial portion of your healing comes just from rotational abilities that don't even require Defiance.

And your answer for that is Clemency?

Clemency is PLD's only notable self-heal. But given that it (still) takes away 2 GCDs to function, there is no possible way that you can compare it to the self-healing that DRK and WAR get.

DRK doesn't really need any kind of boost. They're still ahead of PLD from most parses I've seen, both in MT DPS and OT DPS, and they still have a very good showing from a mitigation perspective (Dark Dance has a much better showing in Midas than Gordias, to my understanding). There are some parity issues that could stand to be addressed, like how some abilities work against one another, but a good DRK knows how to avoid those circumstances, and so generally isn't affected by them (they know not to throw DA Dark Dance at the same time as Blood Price, as an example).

If you're having a hard time managing your MP, then I hate to join the choir, but you need to learn how to play better. And if you're worried about your DPS being surpassed by a skilled PLD now, then that also means you need to learn how to play better. DRK naturally puts out better numbers than PLD, even still, the gap just isn't as wide as it used to be.

That was good prenerf but not so good now. No problem managing MP, I just think it should be used more, which means it needs to cost less MP so you can use it for other abilities.

Not really worried about Paladin DPS, "now" however I can see them catching up closer as gear goes up, which shouldn't be the case at all.

The only parses i've seen so far of "date" is Dark Knight without Grit+Darkside VS Paladin in Shield Oath (Tank Stance.) So of course, the Paladin will have less damage.

[Judah_Brandt]

Clemency.

10 char.

You, sir, are simply amazing. I'd hate to send you shopping for oranges, because you'd bring back apples.

[BattleGrace]

You, sir, are simply amazing. I'd hate to send you shopping for oranges, because you'd bring back apples.

Please, he would come back empty handed after arguing with the cashier that his apples are oranges.

[canegal]

Every tank are good as they are...why people want to change again and again .... the player have to adapted his gameplay to the character he play, if he dont like the gameplay of his character he can change, i think there is a lot of gameplay possibilities in this game so find which one is the one who you love and let the other player play what they like... and if you dont find it change game....

[Jpec07]

That was good prenerf but not so good now. No problem managing MP, I just think it should be used more, which means it needs to cost less MP so you can use it for other abilities.

Not really worried about Paladin DPS, "now" however I can see them catching up closer as gear goes up, which shouldn't be the case at all.

The only parses i've seen so far of "date" is Dark Knight without Grit+Darkside VS Paladin in Shield Oath (Tank Stance.) So of course, the Paladin will have less damage.

So let me see if I've got this right: you want to buff DRK--and only DRK--back to pre-nerf levels? Closer to them? When all tanks got hit with a nerf?

PLD rather desperately needed the buffs it got. It was terribly underperforming. DRK doesn't need anything, because a good DRK can work with what they've already got to pretty amazing effect. Crying about "Why do they get a buff but not me?!" just makes you sound like a pouting child.

Also, MT on DRK is meant to have a slower pace without stance dancing. When you're OT, Blood Weapon makes it so you can use Dark Arts more frequently, and makes the gameplay feel a lot quicker. But if you MT (and keep Grit on), you're going to need to use it less frequently, and this is by design.

If they did as you proposed and allowed for Dark Arts to be used more frequently, they would need to nerf its effectiveness in equal measure to maintain balance. At that point, it just wouldn't feel as good to use, and it wouldn't feel like mastering the MP management component of the gameplay was as rewarding. So not only are the changes you suggested not necessary, but I'm pretty sure they would hurt more than they would help.