Ifrit Hard Mode Loot vs 5-Slotted Materia Gear?

[darkstarpoet1]

Why would they create Grand Company quests for DoH and DoL if they weren't planning on having them join at one point or another?

the question was asked and were told that to join the company you had to be a dow/dol. they didn't say anything about being able to join later. usually when they have plans to change in the future they preface by saying "for now", but they strictly stated only those could join.

To obtain a chocobo from a Grand Company, you are required to pledge your full allegiance to their cause, and to do that you must have achieved level 25 in any Discipline of War or Magic.

[Medura]

of course 5 slotted gear wont be best in game!

7 slotted will be ...

[Malakhim]

the question was asked and were told that to join the company you had to be a dow/dol. they didn't say anything about being able to join later. usually when they have plans to change in the future they preface by saying "for now", but they strictly stated only those could join.

Two things right off the bat just reading that, one being more probable than the other. To get a Grand Company chocobo, you have to get a DoW/DoM class up to level 25. That doesn't mean you can't get chocobos from other means eventually.

Second, this might just be a temporary thing. As everyone knows, they're kind of rushing out airships and chocobos due to fan demand mostly, and will be adding more content related to them(such as actual mounting animations, combat, equipment, etc.) in the future. Nothing says this is permanently set in stone.

[Spuffin]

Okay. The bow is bad ass.

[Amsai]

That's why i suggested farming company seals, that way you have to do dungeons many times over, i suppose they could add a company material crafter that could upgrade your weapons each additional material would cost a significant amount of seals. (and probably a similar chance of failure just to keep it balanced)

Would that be a better idea ?

I dont like this specific idea, BUT I definately like the direction. You are making it more adventure oriented, but its still using a form of "money" as opposed to blood. Though on the other hand, I dont have any good ideas I know what I want but not how it should be done or what would be considered fair.

[Picoman]

I believe the HQ changes are not coming in 1.19.
New recipes and old recipes will co-exists for a while.
Also 7-slot materia is to be max not 5.

[darkstarpoet1]

Two things right off the bat just reading that, one being more probable than the other. To get a Grand Company chocobo, you have to get a DoW/DoM class up to level 25. That doesn't mean you can't get chocobos from other means eventually.

Second, this might just be a temporary thing. As everyone knows, they're kind of rushing out airships and chocobos due to fan demand mostly, and will be adding more content related to them(such as actual mounting animations, combat, equipment, etc.) in the future. Nothing says this is permanently set in stone.

oh, i agree that eventually they probably will. my only problem is when the question was asked directly if they would be able to that they could have simply stated "not at this point, but there may be other ways in the future". that, in itself, is more of just setting themselves up for a rage fast instead of instead of actually thinking of the pr ramifications.

if someone asks me if i am going back into my profession(construction). i'm going to school now after many years to get my computer science degree. do i tell them person asking "no i will not go back to construction" or do i say "if i can get going in this new field i don't plan on going back"? one is stated as a closed no way around it i will never do something and the other is open ended and states i don't plan on it, but may if forced.

the first way if it was a former boss they would laugh if i ever needed to go back to him for a job.
the other way if i called it wasn't a complete suprise to hear from me again.

[Physic]

You got that a bit backwards hoss.

uhhh im pretty sure they said that heavily slotted gears will offer unparalleled power. I remember the example being something like a materia with 28 hp, you really think a drop with 5x 28hp will drop in a raid? this in the same breath where all our stats are getting lowered to be more effecient?

I think the justification is that materia isnt a craft only, battle only or gather only item, it requires multiple levels of cooperation for the craft, of course, Crafters get to double dip, providing the gear, and the craft, but thats a tale for another day.

I wouldnt mind some sort of similar system applied to battle, whereby you can take a high risk to upgrade, but i doubt they will put that in play for awhile.
I can only think amsai is mostly worried that crafters will hold the rest of the process hostage in terms of money, because while they could put an npc in the bowels of a dungeon after you defeat some rare monster, who offers to try to add materia to your weapon, but has an increasing chance to blow it up, theres not that much difference between that and a crafter really, other than a little more adventure, and the possibility that the crafter will be a jackass.

If i was going to do it, id make the crafted gear the most versatile, and maybe allow the best raid gears to be upgraded to similar levels, but only on one path. For ex, you can through much time and battle upgrade your ifrit weapon to similar levels as a 5 slot, however, it only has one progression, whereas a crafted weapon you can tailor it to your needs.

But it would have to be the same time investment/risk. I also wouldnt make crafted items suck in this game, but i would probably make some more epicness for the best crafts, maybe a difficult crafting quest to unlock certain recipes, for interesting items.

Games that make raids have hands down best gears, make crafting worthless, considering the time energy and investment that people have to put in to craft in this game, i dont think that is a good system for this game. Not to say everyone should exist for the crafters, but it should stay a big part of the game

[Roaran]

This will all be answered in the patch and even more clearly after some testing.

The obvious answer to the obvious question is, will Rare/Ex Gear be better than Crafted+Materia Gear...? No, the crafted gear with materia will surpass the rare/ex gear.

Now the difficult questions to answer are... How much better? And at what cost?

Answering how much better right now is impossible. We do not know how good materia is, and we do not know the ratio of quality between crafted and rare/ex gear.

But we do know that crafted gear with materia will come at a significantly higher cost.

Here's hypothetical situation...
Suppose you want to craft a piece of gear with and attach some materia. The base equipment costs 100,000 and each Materia costs 75,000.

Assuming a 90% chance of success on the initial craft, followed by the materia attempts: 100%, 90%, 80%, 75%, 50%.
You can expect to pay on average 194,444 for the first Materia attachment to be successful; and it follows 308,642 for the second; 501,543 for the third; 823,045 for the fourth; and finally 1,954,733 for the final attachment.

This is all for a 100,000 item with EXTREMELY optimistic chances for success.

If the probability for attaching materia is lower than this, the odds of producing an item with 5 Materia attachments decreases subsantially. A lower probability makes the estimated cost of production much higher as well. In addition, the higher the value of the initial item or materia drastically raises the cost of production as well.

___________________________________

In other words... Rare/Ex gear will be a nice alternative for many. While those who want the absolute best gear, will have to shell out large sums of gil to get their hands on them.

I was running a scenario of an potential item worth 1.2 million gil that may or may not be comparable to the new gear in 1.19. If materia were to cost roughly 100,000 each. It would cost on average ~7million to produce the item with 5 Materia under these optimistic probabilities. Now reduce the probability even a little, and costs can go up to 50 million fairly easily.

[Konachibi]

Just gonna... repost this since people seemed to have skipped past it and it pretty much explains Roarans post in simplified terms:

In 1.19 making HQ weaponry is going to be a bit harder, as it'll require getting a full set of HQ materials in order to make one. Then slotting 5 materia onto it will be incredibly dangerous, as SE have already said the first 1 or 2 materia will be relatively easy to put on, but then from then on it gets harder, and if you fail you don't just lose your materia, you lose the weapon too. that being said there's an incredible risk with slotting a HQ weapon with 5 materia, more risk than fighting a primal on the chance of getting a drop, so I'd imagine it'd be fair to say that a HQ weapon with 5 materia slotted would in fact be superior to a weapon aquirable through fighting a primal or doing a dungeon.

On an additional thought if they impliment relic weapons like they had in FFXI those would be incredibly difficult and time consuming weapons to aquire, so it would then be fair to say relic weapons should be more advanced than a HQ weapon with 5 materia slotted.

It would be nice however if a HQ weapon with 5 slotted materia was given a slightly different appearance from it's standard version, to give a better impression of it's superior power.