Why so salty?

[Raim]

What part of 'game balance has always been more important than realism' don't you understand about development? It doesn't matter if the guy is using a great axe. It doesn't matter if the game isn't necessarily competitive like a FPS or a Moba. The problem is that when you make a particular role, class, or build so powerful that everyone feels obligated to bring them and build that way that it becomes bad design. You dont see the issue of a class doing similar damage to DPS classes but also having massive defensive and sustain abilities? Hey yeah maybe we should buff tanks instead so the new meta can be WHM/SCH/WAR/WAR/WAR/WAR/WAR/DRG.

[Thunda51]

Actually SE did come in over a year ago and nerfd the hell out of my then main class BRD after everyone who didn't play as that class complained about it. Deal with it you're a tank. That was an actual DPS class. Your job is to maintain aggro, so just focus on that instead of numbers.

[Shurrikhan]

Actually SE did come in over a year ago and nerfd the hell out of my then main class BRD after everyone who didn't play as that class complained about it. Deal with it you're a tank. That was an actual DPS class. Your job is to maintain aggro, so just focus on that instead of numbers.

Coming from a Bard main at that time, it was a support class that was outDPSing DPS classes, especially whenever any movement or distance was required. These are entirely separate issues.

Tanks doing the damage of mediocre DPS is nothing unique to Heavensward, either, or even to WAR. Until now, it has been an established part of the meta that a tank can either neglect mitigation or mechanics by stacking vit at the price of dps (or, in that relatively brief time in which one cannot otherwise survive, after having stacked to that min eHP cap) OR can deal proximate dps. Parry has always been nearly worthless. All that happened was that rather than making Vitality inherently more valuable (without allowing tanks to take otherwise CD-required TBs with nothing), or bridging the gap between the two stats, they removed the choice outright. STR/VIT mixed sets remain the best, but only after capping VIT. Choice lost. Parry remains worthless, favoring offensive secondary stats. Choice not found.

[birdy_reene]

"snipe".

True, but the problem is so many tanks have forgotten Tank first, dps concern as tank is secondary. and it lead to plenty of really bad situations. Tho the new patch poops on the few good DPS Tank hybrids, its forcing the subpar tanks to go back to the basics they neglected in their quest to do dmg. I wont lie, ive seen amazing dps hybrid tanks who do absurdly well and I got no beef with that. But the wannabe's brought down the game play. DPS that slack are guilty of this as well. Ultimately I like this patch, I don't mind taking a hit to my dps as my pld, it makes the bad party members stand out like sore thumbs now. And those bad players will learn to step up their game, or live in a toxic wasteland of hate and beguile. Ultimately I like it even more so cause it in a round about way forces teamwork.

[JediFirefly]

I've played a VIT PLD since launch, I don't see any nerf, I felt like a God in every dungeon I ran today, compared to last week. I did more damage, and it was so much easier holding aggro against balls to the walls from the pull DPSers.

I had given up PLD and went to WHM main since HW came out. This "nerf" has made me want to be a PLD again.

[birdy_reene]

-snip-.

Same, I went full Vit PLD when I got the game, then went to WHM, then picked up dragoon. And learned a lot about all 3 rolls and how to work off one another. One thing this playerbase ive noticed has forgotten big time is, this game is full of ALOT of casuals. And sometimes those casuals decide they want to learn how to play with the big dogs. And when your a casual. you don't usually have the luxury of playing with big dogs, so you join a que and hope to Odin that someone will take notice and give you the advice and patience needed to learn to do what they do. Youtube guides only get you so far. and I love this patch cause it enforces know your rolls, help each other out, or suffer for it.

[Velox]

What if SE took the job that you enjoy most and nerfed the shit out of it? Hmmm? What if they decided oh you like pushing out big numbers with your Mnk? Well, we decided that, yes you are supposed to be doing damage, but tests have shown that your numbers are a bit too high, so in response to that we'll be reducing your damage by 35%. Please look forward to it!....Just as an example.

Now would you suck it up and put on your big boy pants and quietly keep your thoughts and opinions to yourself?

If my job was broken, in that it was doing 35% more DPS than it should be capable of when compared to other DPS and when weighed against livability and party utility...yes, yes I would suck it up and keep my thoughts quietly to myself. It's only right that the job gets nerfed for the sake of balance of all jobs. I'm not self-righteous enough to think that only my job matters when compared to every other job's equality.

[FallenWings]

I can understand that bad DPS players were getting away with being carried by Tank DPS. But I don't think that nerfing tanks will make them better players. At the end of the day it's their choice if they want to get better or not. It was good knowing it wasn't the end of the world if I was queued up with abysmal DPS. That I could help get us all through.

I'm just now more at the mercy of Ice Mages than I was before.

But I guess if there are less of these STR tank horror stories then it is probably worth it. Wouldn't feel so bad if we had actual feedback(Parser) for the bad DPS players to SEE they are doing poorly.

If my job was broken, in that it was doing 35% more DPS than it should be capable of when compared to other DPS and when weighed against livability and party utility...yes, yes I would suck it up and keep my thoughts quietly to myself. It's only right that the job gets nerfed for the sake of balance of all jobs. I'm not self-righteous enough to think that only my job matters when compared to every other job's equality.

A better example would be if MNK was only 5% Higher than the other DPS but got reduced by 35% "just because". That is what it feels like right now. You weren't replacing DPS with Tanks. You're more inclined to replace Tanks with DPS as you would before the STR meta. No tank can replace the DPS utility so that's another moot point, and the extra survivabiltiy is a weak argument as we can see with the ENTIRE POINT of the STR meta.

[birdy_reene]

I can understand that bad DPS players were getting away with being carried by Tank DPS. But I don't think that nerfing tanks will make them better players. At the end of the day it's their choice if they want to get better or not. It was good knowing it wasn't the end of the world if I was queued up with abysmal DPS. That I could help get us all through.

I'm just now more at the mercy of Ice Mages than I was before.

But I guess if there are less of these STR tank horror stories then it is probably worth it. Wouldn't feel so bad if we had actual feedback(Parser) for the bad DPS players to SEE they are doing poorly.

or at the very least more kicks, instead of a 4 hour cooldown. Cause I agree, when your bad and don't want to get better, your just a troll at that point.

[NFaelivrin]

It's literally just numbers.

The base gameplay of aggressive tanking remains largely unchanged, that is, active stance dancing during low damage periods and minimizing the usage of your lowest potency combos. The only change here was in the ability to adjust some trinkets before a fight, and a nerf in total DPS numbers, which is irrelevant: good tanks will always try to maximize raid DPS in whichever ways they can.