Tank Gear's Value for the Future.

[Kosmos992k]

Alright, so by the new calculations (and me being completely right.) we are going to start losing more dps every single patch that adds more stats to jewelry. It is pretty clear the developers did not think things through to the nerf very well.

Losing DPS would mean doing less dps with top tier 3.3 gear vs top tier 3.2. Good luck making that argument.

You can't lose that which you have never had. Your projection of what would have happened with STR tank meta and slaying accessories going forwards is of no relevance. The adjustment has been made, so adjust yourself. You do less damage, you have more HP. Going forwards, higher VIT and STR will increase your dps with every bump in ilvl. That's undeniably true. Your argument is based on your own projection of what might have happened. There is no loss, unless it's your perspective of course...

I want to swing my axe and the monster to feel like they were poked with a toothpick. Seems legit.

Must be a damned big tooth you pick with that thing then...

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Losing DPS would mean doing less dps with top tier 3.3 gear vs top tier 3.2. Good luck making that argument.

You can't lose that which you have never had. Your projection of what would have happened with STR tank meta and slaying accessories going forwards is of no relevance. The adjustment has been made, so adjust yourself. You do less damage, you have more HP. Going forwards, higher VIT and STR will increase your dps with every bump in ilvl. That's undeniably true. Your argument is based on your own projection of what might have happened. There is no loss, unless it's your perspective of course...



Must be a damned big tooth you pick with that thing then...

Say new pieces of jewelry come out.


DPS: 70 Strength
Tank: 70 Vitality

x5 DPS Increase:
Tank: 157.5
DPS: 350.

____


Now lets look at future gear.

DPS: 140 Strength
Tank: 140 Vitality

x5 DPS Increase:
Tank: 315.
DPS: 700.

This is pretty basic math.

[Kosmos992k]

This is pretty basic math.

Pretty basic math is this. formerly we had 1 STR = 1 AP.

Now we have 1 VIT = 0.45 AP *and* 1 STR = 0.45 AP.

Relative to our prior performance, we are at 90% of the former AP, assuming you balance your VIT and STR. That is a one time adjustment. The future remains to be seen and it depends on how they balance the primary stats on gear going forwards. If there is more VIT on gear than STR generally, then It all offesets in the end because our overall AP will not drop below that 90%.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Pretty basic math is this. formerly we had 1 STR = 1 AP.

Now we have 1 VIT = 0.45 AP *and* 1 STR = 0.45 AP.

Relative to our prior performance, we are at 90% of the former AP, assuming you balance your VIT and STR. That is a one time adjustment. The future remains to be seen and it depends on how they balance the primary stats on gear going forwards. If there is more VIT on gear than STR generally, then It all offesets in the end because our overall AP will not drop below that 90%.

Jewelry only has one stat on it. As stats go up, tank DPS will go down.

Unless they decrease the amount of strength and stats on all DPS gear.

First Gear Patch:
Tanks will do 95% of the damage they used to compared to DPS.

Second Gear Patch:
Tanks will do 90% of the damage they used to compared to DPS.

Third Gear Patch:
Tanks will do 85% of the damage they used to compared to DPS.

That is because as stats go up, scaling goes down further and further.

[Kosmos992k]

Jewelry only has one stat on it. As stats go up, tank DPS will go down.

Melded jewelery can have 2.

However, the point is that the balance of VIT vs STR is important now because you have to fins enough stat budget to boost both. So it depends entirely on how the gear shakes out going forwards. Personally I think that they should have put a weighting of 0.5 on VIT and 0.45 on STR because the difficulty of gaining an optimal amount of both at the same time is not trivial. Your math is wrong because you are assuming things we do not know.

We do know that SE will be watching the logs and checking tank DPS in particular to ensure that the balance hasn't shifted more than intended. If the balance has shifted too far, then expect to see adjustments to the weighting of the stats in the damage calculation.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Melded jewelery can have 2.

However, the point is that the balance of VIT vs STR is important now because you have to fins enough stat budget to boost both. So it depends entirely on how the gear shakes out going forwards. Personally I think that they should have put a weighting of 0.5 on VIT and 0.45 on STR because the difficulty of gaining an optimal amount of both at the same time is not trivial. Your math is wrong because you are assuming things we do not know.

We do know that SE will be watching the logs and checking tank DPS in particular to ensure that the balance hasn't shifted more than intended. If the balance has shifted too far, then expect to see adjustments to the weighting of the stats in the damage calculation.

So basicly tanks have to "pay" to be as good as other classes. However no other class has to do that?

[Kosmos992k]

So basicly tanks have to "pay" to be as good as other classes. However no other class has to do that?

::rolls eys at myself::
I was walking back from a meeting when I realized that I made an error in my math because I included accessories on each half of my calculation for PLD. This was obviously wrong. So, I'll yank the remainder of this post and rework the math (unless of course someone else already has).

My apologies for my bad math.

Based on the current Stat weightings of STR & VIT (0.45 per point of each) vs a DD with STR = AP, I calculated the total stat budgets of 3 sets of gear. including weapons, armor and accessories. Tank was PLD with all Fending, DRG was DRG with all Slaying. Using the DRG set as the 'baseline' for the calculations we get...

Dravinian + Hive weapons (ilvl 200-ish)
PLD (715 STR + 735 VIT) * 0.45 = 652.5 AP
DRG 710 STR = 710 AP
Ratio PLD to DRG = 0.92

Gordian (ilvl 210)
PLD (789 STR + 821 VIT) * 0.45 = 724.5 AP
DRG 779 STR = 779 AP
Ratio PLD to DRG = 0.93

Top tier 3.2 (ilvl 245)
PLD (1044 STR + 1108 VIT) * 0.45 = 968.4 AP
DRG 1019 STR = 1019 AP
Ratio PLD to DRG = 0.95

Actually, far from losing, it seems that the top tier gear in 3.2 brings tank DPS potential up towards that of a DD.

You so blinded by your outrage that you utterly neglect to count the VIT *and* STR you get. Even with the 0.45 multiplier on both STR and VIT, the gap vs plain strength narrows as ilvl increases. Oh and one other thing, it's demonstrable that using slaying accessories will actually reduce your DPS potential now.

Also, if we had a 0.9 multiplier on our STR to AP calculation and went all STR, we would lose even more DPS, with the Gordian Set, for example, going from a 0.95 of base to a flat 0.9 of base. Blending VIT and STR was the way to go. Going all VIT with a 0.9 multiplier would leave our AP too high relative to DD jobs like DRG.

The correction is here.

Either way, the point I was making was that Nektulos-Tuor appears to be failing to count the VIT on accessories, and calculating it in such a way that the total stat budget for tanks is not in play.

[Ibi]

Jewelry only has one stat on it. As stats go up, tank DPS will go down.

Unless they decrease the amount of strength and stats on all DPS gear.

First Gear Patch:
Tanks will do 95% of the damage they used to compared to DPS.

Second Gear Patch:
Tanks will do 90% of the damage they used to compared to DPS.

Third Gear Patch:
Tanks will do 85% of the damage they used to compared to DPS.

That is because as stats go up, scaling goes down further and further.

I already explained why this is incorrect all the way back in post #29, on page 3. I was using estimates at the time, but even though the conclusion doesn't change, let's show the results using the actual numbers:



As you can see when we use the actual numbers, the ratio of the monk's damage-influencing stats from gear to the warrior's damage-influencing stats from gear actually decreases as item level increases, because vitality increases faster with item level than the primary damage stats:

• i150 rings have 29 VIT vs 31 STR
• i190 rings have 40 VIT vs 40 STR
• i210 rings have 49 VIT vs 47 STR
• i240 rings have 66 VIT vs 61 STR

(The formulas changed between 2.x and 3.x, but you can see that it's pretty consistent from i150 onwards.)