i230 Tome weapons!! So long relic grind...

[UBERHAXED]

I would like to point out that, relic weapons are considered to be garanteed top tier weapon. It's not something that acquired easily, but if you work on relic everyday, you will get there eventually. If you working on relic, don't try to think that "I need to finish this fast possible!" because you would then go crazy and in some cases, people just give up. But developers seem to take relic process very seriously. It might not be best weapon of all times, but I'm sure it will be 2nd best. I don't think developers would bump relic ilevel so dramatically because they want people to explore more dungeons and challenge the raid. Then, after all that is done, it's where relic upgrade starts again.

I actually find it hard to care about new gear at all... The only people who have any reason to care are those seriously into Savage, but... Well, I get the story from the Normal, and the only thing really worthwhile from Savage is the gear which exists... To make Savage easier... Yeah, I have a hard time caring about that at all... If you ignore the cyclical trap (raid to get gear so you can raid!) that is Alexander, nothing in this game currently requires an item level beyond Law, 3.2 will maybe bump that up to Esoterics... I'll get Lore stuff because why not, same for Normal/Sephirot stuff, but I can hardly bring myself to care at this point... Nothing I care about will require me to have i220 in 3.2... My i210 Kannagi is probably good until 3.5 in all honesty, nevermind the fact that it'll be upgraded by then anyway...

Gear in this game leaves a lot to be desired... Relics are perhaps the only exception, since we actually keep upgrading them (wish we had a gear equivalent), but even then... 3.0 has shown me that SE doesn't care about Relics at all. Legendary weapons which involve a lifeless sh*t stain of a quest which is neither challenging or remotely epic, and when we're finally done creating a weapon with a soul, 4.0 will come along and we'll murder the damn thing to convert it into bullsh*t to skip 4.0s FATE grinding segment of the Relic grind... Excalibur is a reward for sheer mediocrity, rather than something epic to obtain, and even after you obtain it it's only purpose now is to be melted down to speed up making a new weapon, it's like a bad joke...

???
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Moving-Forward
Where are you getting all of this false info from? They even have a post explaining the point of Anima weapons.

[Nalien]

???
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Moving-Forward
Where are you getting all of this false info from? They even have a post explaining the point of Anima weapons.

What false information did I post exactly? My opinion?

Relics are fairly pathetic. It's a long, stupid grind, of sub-60 content for the most part, that is intended to reward the bottom feeders of the community. I couldn't care less if that is their intended design choice, because it's stupid and always will be. I mean seriously, you get an i200 weapon and the hardest content you have to do is The Vault... You can make an i210 off nothing more than Lv50 beast tribe quests (and they're not even Lv50 quests IIRC)... It's a terrible joke, considering the rewards are "legendary" weapons. Nothing about these weapons is remotely legendary... Nevermind the fact that the first set of such weapons is now garbage because apparently it's too hard to have two Relics going at once, can't imagine it would have been too hard to have the Anima questline also give you the option of upgrading your Zodiac weapon to new item levels, but no... Lets just burn that weapon instead...

I'm actually perfectly fine with a substantial grind, but that's all Relics are, and they're far from a decent grind too... Ever since 2.0 we've had nothing interesting or challenging. It's just crappy content grinds. Chimera and Hydra (and Titan) had their problems, I'll admit, but there is nothing stopping them having a solo trial at the end of the grind to make the quest somewhat epic. We get solo trials fairly damn often in the MSQ, after all... Challenging Duty Finder content for a Relic was a mistake because it locked you behind other peoples performance, a solo trial can be fairly challenging without that worry. Even the grinds themselves could be significantly more epic if they actually incorporated new content... Instead they release new content, then wait a month or two to have us grind it again for Relics... They're basically built off stale content, it's a large part of why people are so irritated by the grind. I'm not even sure why 3.2 doesn't have the next steps... They wouldn't be the best weapons, the i245 Alexander weapons can still hold that spot, but Anima weapons could go to i220 or even i230 (dare I push i240?). Would make Lore and Sephirot weapons irrelevant? Nonsense. Using that logic, Sephirot weapons are already irrelevant, because Lore gives us superior weapons. The thing to remember is Lore is gated behind a weekly tomestone grind, likewise Relics tend to be gated behind a fairly substantial grind. Arguably they delay it to keep content relevant, but... I'm fairly sure a large portion of the community wants multiple Relics... If I did Kannagi Zenith in 3.2, I'd do Nothung Zenith in 3.25, so what exactly have they achieved this way? Less content to do in 3.2, since despite its many many flaws, Relic content is still some of the hottest content this game offers, and they've done their own quest a disservice, since come 3.25 we'll be bored of whatever they have us repeat for the new weapons... That would still apply to my Nothung Zenith, but at least I might enjoy the Kannagi Zenith slightly more...

[UBERHAXED]

Would make Lore and Sephirot weapons irrelevant? Nonsense. Using that logic, Sephirot weapons are already irrelevant, because Lore gives us superior weapons. The thing to remember is Lore is gated behind a weekly tomestone grind, likewise Relics tend to be gated behind a fairly substantial grind. Arguably they delay it to keep content relevant, but... I'm fairly sure a large portion of the community wants multiple Relics... If I did Kannagi Zenith in 3.2, I'd do Nothung Zenith in 3.25, so what exactly have they achieved this way? Less content to do in 3.2, since despite its many many flaws, Relic content is still some of the hottest content this game offers, and they've done their own quest a disservice, since come 3.25 we'll be bored of whatever they have us repeat for the new weapons... That would still apply to my Nothung Zenith, but at least I might enjoy the Kannagi Zenith slightly more...

If you actually read the patch notes, you would have realized that they don't have tomestone weapons anymore (3.0 was the anomaly anyway):

Completion Reward
Players will also receive a Midan Gear once per week after completing Alexander - The Burden of the Son.
Midan gears can be exchanged for high-capacity tomestones by speaking with the NPC Sabina in Idyllshire (X:5.8 Y:5.2). High-capacity tomestones are used in the purchase of new weapons.

[Nalien]

If you actually read the patch notes, you would have realized that they don't have tomestone weapons anymore (3.0 was the anomaly anyway):

...

You're aware this is nothing new, right? We've had weapons you need something like a High-capacity tomestone to obtain before, you also needed Rowena Tokens (tomestone) to trade in alongside to obtain the weapon, and go figure;

Rowena's Token (Lore) Miscellany A note of promise received from Rowena for the delivery of Allagan tomestones of lore.

They're Lore weapons. You'll need a High-capacity Tomestone from Alexander normal and a bunch of Rowena's Token (Lore). This is exactly the same as needing an Unidentified Allagan Tomestone, and a bunch of Rowena's Token (Soldiery), or needing an Encrypted Tomestone plus Rowena's Token (Poetics). The only difference here, is that the tomestone item is much easier to obtain now, because it drops from easy mode Alexander, rather than the proper raid. So this is no different than the Soldiery weapons or Poetics weapons, except casuals will be able to get them this patch, rather than having to wait for the next 24 player raid to easy mode the High-capacity tomestones.

Yeah the gil part is definitely the worst thing about the relic. It always baffles me when they do this kind of thing, it was annoying with Novus in 2.0, in 3.0 its not as annoying (no meld and such) but its just as costy.

It annoys me as a crafter.

What am I really making here? A freakin' mirror? Is this a joke? I leveled crafts so I could make weapons and equipment. Apparently crafted weapons have all but been forgotten at this point though... Equipment is finally getting some love with i220 crafted stuff, but that's really just taking us back to the "spend money to boost stats higher while waiting for tomestone gear!" thing which I was never really a fan of... What I'd really like is to kick Gerolt off Azys Lla and hand crafters their own relic style "quest", as a crafter I want to feel like the ultimate smith who made some legendary equipment, instead that is constantly handed off to Gerolt... Doesn't need to be required for Relic progression (why can't we have multiple ways to do these things anyway?) and I certainly don't want to profit from making such equipment. As a crafter, all I really want is to make my own legendary equipment. Were something like this Replica Allagan stuff in 2.0, with it having the same item level as the Coil Allagan stuff, then that would pretty much be what I'm asking for.

Sadly this is partially due to a good amount of players unable to deal with the two Relic related trial from 2.0. Hence why he said they won't design content like this anymore. It's pretty ridiculous.

They need to realize the real problem with stuff like Chimera and Titan. It wasn't quite that individual players couldn't handle it, it was that groups couldn't handle it.

Back in 2.0, I wiped to Titan a lot. Was it my fault? I don't think so, I wasn't the one dying to WotL or flying off the edge constantly. I could handle those mechanics. The major factor stopping others from handling those mechanics was the "abandon ship" mentality players developed whenever it became apparent they were carrying people...

This simply cannot happen with a solo trial. A solo trial can be as challenging as you like, the "long term grind" can be learning how to beat it, and you're not held back by anyone but yourself. It would make Relics slightly more epic, and the added challenge would go a ways to improving the playerbase in general. Right now Relics reward people with endgame tier weapons when they don't even need to do Lv60 content, it's no wonder the average player is absolutely terrible. A trial you have to beat to get your Relic though? That means you, and only you, have to improve. You can't get carried by other players, you have to beat this trial to continue upgrading your Relic.

Ugh... I still remember how disappointed I was with the Zodiac weapon... "The Zodiac Braves slew a demon to finish their weapons!", awesome! New trial against a demon?! "We'll just craft some demon blood though!", ........

[Archvile78]

...Ugh... I still remember how disappointed I was with the Zodiac weapon... "The Zodiac Braves slew a demon to finish their weapons!", awesome! New trial against a demon?! "We'll just craft some demon blood though!", ........

Yeah...i heard the relic in XI was pretty awesome, where you had to do a solo trial. Too bad they didnt repeat the same there.

[Nalien]

Yeah...i heard the relic in XI was pretty awesome, where you had to do a solo trial. Too bad they didnt repeat the same there.

Honestly, I wanted to to a Mythic weapon in XI for the trial at the end more than anything... It was as much the reward for finishing the weapon as the weapon was... It made the quest pretty damn epic, where as previously it was basically just a massive grind... The grind for a Mythic being far better (even though it was far far longer, people think 75 Alexandrite is a lot for Sphere Scrolls? Mythics needed 30,000 Alexandrite...) if only because it used new and relevant content... Here we get sent back into stuff like Alexander after it has become irrelevant, and they involve something like Diadem in the worst possible way (I'd take no crafted requirements, double the Unidentified item requirements, and Unidentified items only coming from Diadem over what we currently have, and I don't even like Diadem...)... Mythic weapons went "This it ToAH, we added Assault, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, ZNMs and Einherjar, do all of these things to obtain your Mythic", while XIV just doesn't have that variety in content... Actually, it does, but SE arbitrarily rule out involving half their content because it's "too hard"... So we're basically locked down to dungeons and FATEs... Hopefully storymode Alexander and Sephirot can change that, but it's already too late. We'll grind that content in 3.2, then 3.25 will tell us to do it again for our Relics when people are burned out from doing the content... SE really shoots themselves in the foot here... I'd do Alexander and Sephirot for my Relic next week if I could, and a month later I'd do them again for another Relic, delaying the grind just makes it less attractive and doesn't really achieve anything...

[NovaLevossida]

They need to realize the real problem with stuff like Chimera and Titan. It wasn't quite that individual players couldn't handle it, it was that groups couldn't handle it.

That is the most depressing thing about it. I played WAR at 2.0 launch so no one wanted to group with me anyway, so I was doubly forced into the duty finder. The only reason I cleared it was because a FC was forming for Coil and they used Titan Hard as my trial run. Once I had 7 competent people with me, success.