i230 Tome weapons!! So long relic grind...

[Isala]

We've had 2 months to get our Relics to 210. That's it. 60 days. 60 days of relevancy, even if you managed to complete it ASAP. They delayed the relic again, and again, and when they did release it, they made it a garbage grind that literally ripped off complete stages from the ARR relic. And now, we're getting superior weapons for FAR less work. Which is the point here. SE has no idea at all what to do with the relic other than "make it grindy". Which would have been more okay, had they not delayed it so much. Give us time to actually use the weapon for more than a tiny amount of time. Because what's saying they're going to do better with the next stage of the relic? What's to say they're not going to delay it again, and STILL put a massive grind, so that some people don't even have it done before the new weapons. What is the point in having a weapon that you cannot use?

[Lemuel81]

I don't even think this grind is that bad. Atleast you can do the FATES on any job and level something 50+ while you're farming crystals. It my experience, the drop rate isn't THAT bad. I traded my Zeta on my NIN relic, but I've been casually leveling DRK this week and I'm already 17/18 on Luminous crystals.

The dungeon run portion of it is easy.

The worst part is the crafted items, which aren't even that bad if you're a crafter or know crafters.....otherwise it's simply expensive.

not really so much the grind is rough- its more like the reward doesnt isnt worth the time.

[Lazerfest]

The grind is a lot easier for people that have been playing for a long time. As for myself, and I'm sure there are others, I haven't been playing for a long time. Yeah, I can do the Alex runs, the vanu vanu quests, and the roulettes, but I have to grind out other factions to get marks, also don't have any crafters at max level, and when I asked how much it would be for the crafted items, the answer was in the 5 million range for one piece. Now, having not played the game that much, I don't have vaults full of Gil to spend on these. It's not hard by any means, but for people like myself that haven't been playing awhile, it's going to take a long, long, long, long time.

[Warlyx]

1 trial and u get a 220 , farm tomes 3 weeks and get a 230....thats 15 dungeons (less if u farm Lore outisde DR )

yet relic ask u to farm crystals from fates for hours , then 10 dungeons no1 cares about anymore....then grind grind grind and pay tons of gil....

even if the relics is able to be upgraded to 240 doing whatever it takes and is gonna be painfull again ...i expect "light farm" ....is not worth at all.

[Gyson]

The grind is only "retarded" if you decide to burn through it ASAP.
It took me a good month of: 10 daily Alexanders, roulettes, vanu quests

to get my relic, yes it was a long step but at least i had multiple ways of working toward it and in the end, it was worth it.

Oh, only 10 Alex runs a day for a month? Is that all?

I would honestly quit the game before subjecting myself to that.

Look, there's nothing wrong with a long term grind provided it is coupled with an equally long time between ilevel upgrades. If that were the case, moving at a reasonable pace (i.e. playing the game normally - and for the record running Alex 10 times a day for a month is not what many would describe as "playing the game normally") would actually be an option. The problem is players can't work on the current stage of the relic for 3-6+ months without additional stages of the relic quest and other means of obtaining better weapons piling on top of them in that period of time. And at that point it stops becoming an investment towards a useful item and instead turns into busy work for something that will always be obsolete.

What the developers should be doing is designing content for the relic quest that can be completed with reasonable activity in the time they're going to provide between updates. In other words, if there's two months between relic quest updates, then make the quest something someone can complete in two months time through reasonable activity without it becoming the *only* thing they can afford to spend time doing while logged in and/or having to abandon their real-life responsibilities.

[silentwindfr]

i'm amused, because when the relic did come out, i have said that when the 3.2 they will make the relic irevelant quite fast and that we will get a weapon that will take less of 3 week of small play for get it that will be far better and look.
tomes weapon i230 weapon that take 3 week to get.

Yoshida did laughs at this and say that the relic was a long time objective.... but what the point of a long goal objective that simply useless pieces of junk? more asking tons of hours of investement and gil for a barely useable weapon? because that what are the relic...
in FF11 the relic was too a long time objective but was the best weapon of the game in counter part... here the raid give the best weapon. if you have a static (what not everyone have) that are not too bad you can get good weapon quite fast, by example i will not be surprise that sephiroth will be down to farming in less of one week giving already a i220 weapon.

2 trouble with the way yoshida see the game:
- 1) nothing must be at the same level of the raid, he did said it countless of time, but when you see that the savage was at the 3.15 barely used (less of 5% of the player base) we can ask why make it the most important content if soo little people do it. it's like make the best gears come out of pvp... i'm saying that it is time to add new content that don't recquire a statics of 8 for make it. you can make really hard content that will recquire group of 4 or even raid of 26 for big guild that ask for ages.
- 2) he pay too much attention at what the hardcore playerbase can do.... hardcore player are generally destroying content at a speed that not natural. use them as base for judge if the game is good or not is bad. if the grind is soo long is not for make it long, it's for counter the hardcore gamer. this sort of player generally are part of the one doing raid in static, means they generally have other means to get weapon like the relic.

Relic for me is a huge mess a failure since Yoshida can't offer us a true relic that will feel like an accomplishement to get... because grind don't give a feeling of accomplishement. for the player for the start of the 2.0 i'm sure only the first step of the relic did give you this feeling of accomplishement. even today i still remember how happy i was when i was finally able to pass titan for get my relic. here it feel dumb and not rewarding at all.

[Archvile78]

even today i still remember how happy i was when i was finally able to pass titan for get my relic. here it feel dumb and not rewarding at all.

Sadly this is partially due to a good amount of players unable to deal with the two Relic related trial from 2.0. Hence why he said they won't design content like this anymore. It's pretty ridiculous.

The grind is a lot easier for people that have been playing for a long time. As for myself, and I'm sure there are others, I haven't been playing for a long time. Yeah, I can do the Alex runs, the vanu vanu quests, and the roulettes, but I have to grind out other factions to get marks, also don't have any crafters at max level, and when I asked how much it would be for the crafted items, the answer was in the 5 million range for one piece. Now, having not played the game that much, I don't have vaults full of Gil to spend on these. It's not hard by any means, but for people like myself that haven't been playing awhile, it's going to take a long, long, long, long time.

Yeah the gil part is definitely the worst thing about the relic. It always baffles me when they do this kind of thing, it was annoying with Novus in 2.0, in 3.0 its not as annoying (no meld and such) but its just as costy.

Oh, only 10 Alex runs a day for a month? Is that all?

While i don't disagree with the rest of your post, i need to precise that i mean 10 runs of 1 Alex floor and not 10 FULL runs of Alex. I don't hate myself enough for that. Though i'm aware that even 10 floor a day is also a lot for people but sadly thats what SE want us to do between 12 dailies and mindless dungeon grind. D:

[UBERHAXED]

Would make Lore and Sephirot weapons irrelevant? Nonsense. Using that logic, Sephirot weapons are already irrelevant, because Lore gives us superior weapons. The thing to remember is Lore is gated behind a weekly tomestone grind, likewise Relics tend to be gated behind a fairly substantial grind. Arguably they delay it to keep content relevant, but... I'm fairly sure a large portion of the community wants multiple Relics... If I did Kannagi Zenith in 3.2, I'd do Nothung Zenith in 3.25, so what exactly have they achieved this way? Less content to do in 3.2, since despite its many many flaws, Relic content is still some of the hottest content this game offers, and they've done their own quest a disservice, since come 3.25 we'll be bored of whatever they have us repeat for the new weapons... That would still apply to my Nothung Zenith, but at least I might enjoy the Kannagi Zenith slightly more...

If you actually read the patch notes, you would have realized that they don't have tomestone weapons anymore (3.0 was the anomaly anyway):

Completion Reward
Players will also receive a Midan Gear once per week after completing Alexander - The Burden of the Son.
Midan gears can be exchanged for high-capacity tomestones by speaking with the NPC Sabina in Idyllshire (X:5.8 Y:5.2). High-capacity tomestones are used in the purchase of new weapons.

[Nalien]

If you actually read the patch notes, you would have realized that they don't have tomestone weapons anymore (3.0 was the anomaly anyway):

...

You're aware this is nothing new, right? We've had weapons you need something like a High-capacity tomestone to obtain before, you also needed Rowena Tokens (tomestone) to trade in alongside to obtain the weapon, and go figure;

Rowena's Token (Lore) Miscellany A note of promise received from Rowena for the delivery of Allagan tomestones of lore.

They're Lore weapons. You'll need a High-capacity Tomestone from Alexander normal and a bunch of Rowena's Token (Lore). This is exactly the same as needing an Unidentified Allagan Tomestone, and a bunch of Rowena's Token (Soldiery), or needing an Encrypted Tomestone plus Rowena's Token (Poetics). The only difference here, is that the tomestone item is much easier to obtain now, because it drops from easy mode Alexander, rather than the proper raid. So this is no different than the Soldiery weapons or Poetics weapons, except casuals will be able to get them this patch, rather than having to wait for the next 24 player raid to easy mode the High-capacity tomestones.

Yeah the gil part is definitely the worst thing about the relic. It always baffles me when they do this kind of thing, it was annoying with Novus in 2.0, in 3.0 its not as annoying (no meld and such) but its just as costy.

It annoys me as a crafter.

What am I really making here? A freakin' mirror? Is this a joke? I leveled crafts so I could make weapons and equipment. Apparently crafted weapons have all but been forgotten at this point though... Equipment is finally getting some love with i220 crafted stuff, but that's really just taking us back to the "spend money to boost stats higher while waiting for tomestone gear!" thing which I was never really a fan of... What I'd really like is to kick Gerolt off Azys Lla and hand crafters their own relic style "quest", as a crafter I want to feel like the ultimate smith who made some legendary equipment, instead that is constantly handed off to Gerolt... Doesn't need to be required for Relic progression (why can't we have multiple ways to do these things anyway?) and I certainly don't want to profit from making such equipment. As a crafter, all I really want is to make my own legendary equipment. Were something like this Replica Allagan stuff in 2.0, with it having the same item level as the Coil Allagan stuff, then that would pretty much be what I'm asking for.

Sadly this is partially due to a good amount of players unable to deal with the two Relic related trial from 2.0. Hence why he said they won't design content like this anymore. It's pretty ridiculous.

They need to realize the real problem with stuff like Chimera and Titan. It wasn't quite that individual players couldn't handle it, it was that groups couldn't handle it.

Back in 2.0, I wiped to Titan a lot. Was it my fault? I don't think so, I wasn't the one dying to WotL or flying off the edge constantly. I could handle those mechanics. The major factor stopping others from handling those mechanics was the "abandon ship" mentality players developed whenever it became apparent they were carrying people...

This simply cannot happen with a solo trial. A solo trial can be as challenging as you like, the "long term grind" can be learning how to beat it, and you're not held back by anyone but yourself. It would make Relics slightly more epic, and the added challenge would go a ways to improving the playerbase in general. Right now Relics reward people with endgame tier weapons when they don't even need to do Lv60 content, it's no wonder the average player is absolutely terrible. A trial you have to beat to get your Relic though? That means you, and only you, have to improve. You can't get carried by other players, you have to beat this trial to continue upgrading your Relic.

Ugh... I still remember how disappointed I was with the Zodiac weapon... "The Zodiac Braves slew a demon to finish their weapons!", awesome! New trial against a demon?! "We'll just craft some demon blood though!", ........

[Mycow8me]

This relic prolly just gonna end up another glam, just like the last one. I dunno why anyone would be in a rush to obtain it other than to have something most dont have. I did zeta after all the nerfs. Best decision I ever made. Glam can wait, atleast for a nerf. Why punish myself when there are other options easily available.

I don't like timegating in pay to play games though, eventually this tome cap shit is gonna get to me. Just playing till it does.