Tank nerf coming?

[Instrumentality]

The buffs to MT PLD should significantly close the gap between PLD in ShO and the other tanks in tank stance.

SwO damage will be a bit lower than DRK/WAR, but not so much that it's just instantly out of the question to ever bring a PLD to progression content.

[Dante_V]

This is respectively speaking. There is the assumption that tanks will be doing significantly less damage and no evidence to support this and the provided source doesn't claim this. It will be a small difference at best. Considering 90% of the players in this game aren't playing there classes at 100% ability anyhow I doubt it will be of substantial effect to anyone outside of like the 90th percentile of their class attempting to min/max stats and rotation parsing. Honestly outside of Savage raids these changes aren't wholly relevant. The changes were specifically to deter the necessity of pentamelds for raiding.

[Eidolon]

[...]I find that a lot of their top parses unfortunately come from people loading up the party in ways that purposely boost a single person's damage so they can "top the charts,"

[...]Was I indulging in a bit of hyperbole? Yes, yes I was. That doesn't change the fact that the gap exists and it's still pretty wide, though.

Here's the thing - the bias you mention (people getting spoiled to reach their maximum output) is applied to both classes. While I am against using the FFXIVlogs for the sake of the average player, I do think it's a good way to see the top of the top.

In those scenarios, they are likely allowed to be OT's attacking targets that are given Vulnerability up. It's the most even scenario - they are both likely fed in order to reach their highest potential, and thus, as you can see, they become extremely potent... but the gap doesn't widen between them.


That's the main take-home point from this : Even when they are both spoiled, there is not a difference of "Twice the damage." So, the scenario of "Twice the damage"... can only come about if you are doing something to enable that to happen, such as a tank in Shield Oath full VIT Vs. a full time Deliverance tank in full STR.

So which is a more fair comparison to you? Personally, I find it far more unbiased to look at the top of the top, because as you admitted - they're being spoiled, and enabled, to put out at their best. And the gap isn't as big, that's why from an objective view, it becomes the best way to look at their actual numbers.

[Galgarion]

Tanks had it too easy on this patch. All they had to do is switch everything into STR, giving all the weight to the healers.

That's not fair. There is a world of difference between a strength tank who knew what he was doing, and a copy and paster who assumed he was good just because he wore strength gear. As a healer, you probably know the difference between the two waaaaaay better than myself since you're the one who has to cast raise when it all goes horribly wrong.

[Kabzy]

That's not fair. There is a world of difference between a strength tank who knew what he was doing, and a copy and paster who assumed he was good just because he wore strength gear. As a healer, you probably know the difference between the two waaaaaay better than myself since you're the one who has to cast raise when it all goes horribly wrong.

I sort of disagree with this. No matter how good the tank may be, they're still going to be 'squishier' than a tank staying in their tank stance. I don't completely agree with Choco either but in certain situations it's a flat out hinderance having your tanks taking more damage.

A2S being a great example; when you're making your Scholar have to heal you because you decided to go DPS stance, you're bringing this false sense of justification on adding DPS. In reality all you did was add a bit of DPS for yourself while rendering the Scholar unable to apply DoTs and contribute 1000+ DPS.

I acknowledge that it was necessary for tanks to go full STR accs and play around with DPS stances to make DPS checks, but they did it to the extent that it became the healer's responsibility to cover for their mistakes. Along with holding aggro, people often forget damage mitigation should be a priority before DPS for tanks too. I can't count the amount of times I've had to turn off cleric because a tank wants to add to their numbers in a more selfish manner than actually wanting the most DPS output for the group.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

@Kabzy

i am pretty sure this is based on player skill. Our first A2s clear we had a SCH in the gob walker for the first half of the fight, as the other healer was solo healing. Neither my co-tank or myself bothered using tank stance in that first portion of the fight. My SCH and I have a fun competition on the first phase of Thordan EX on who can put out more damage, because they aren't healing that phase. I MT it as PLD, but drop tank stance after my opener. (and yes, i am full STR)

It is all about the skill level of everyone in the party. It's also called appropriate defensive cool down usage.

[PArcher]

but they did it to the extent that it became the healer's responsibility to cover for their mistakes.

And that's the mark of a bad tank.

There are great STR tanks currently who don't make extra work for their healers being in DPS stance. Yes, we are far out-numbered by the bads who do, that is sadly true.

Case of people thinking they're amazing for copying what those who are can do, but fail doing it themselves.

[Kaiser-Ace]

And that's the mark of a bad tank.

There are great STR tanks currently who don't make extra work for their healers being in DPS stance. Yes, we are far out-numbered by the bads who do, that is sadly true.

Case of people thinking they're amazing for copying what those who are can do, but fail doing it themselves.

Never in my time as a Paladin have or would I consider Main Tanking without Shield Oath on. But I give any who can succesfully the credit they deserve,.

[Tanathya]

I sort of disagree with this. No matter how good the tank may be, they're still going to be 'squishier' than a tank staying in their tank stance. I don't completely agree with Choco either but in certain situations it's a flat out hinderance having your tanks taking more damage.

A2S being a great example; when you're making your Scholar have to heal you because you decided to go DPS stance, you're bringing this false sense of justification on adding DPS. In reality all you did was add a bit of DPS for yourself while rendering the Scholar unable to apply DoTs and contribute 1000+ DPS.

I acknowledge that it was necessary for tanks to go full STR accs and play around with DPS stances to make DPS checks, but they did it to the extent that it became the healer's responsibility to cover for their mistakes. Along with holding aggro, people often forget damage mitigation should be a priority before DPS for tanks too. I can't count the amount of times I've had to turn off cleric because a tank wants to add to their numbers in a more selfish manner than actually wanting the most DPS output for the group.

Speak for yourself. I can heal myself for much more in a large pull via Abyssal Drain with full STR and proper use of CD's. I'm not gonna get hit for less by wearing more VIT, and that's beating a dead horse. A bad tank is a bad tank, no matter the gear, but currently, a good tank is better off wearing STR than VIT.

[Arrius]

Speak for yourself. I can heal myself for much more in a large pull via Abyssal Drain with full STR and proper use of CD's. I'm not gonna get hit for less by wearing more VIT, and that's beating a dead horse. A bad tank is a bad tank, no matter the gear, but currently, a good tank is better off wearing STR than VIT.

Debatable. WAR and DRK's only picked up on STR because the enemies start to get too easy to deal with and WAR's stance dancing provide a lot of power, disregarding to stay in Defiance and have Fell Cleave be the solution for nearly every problem.

Hence I am glad they did shove the stat weights back to VIT here and put the tanks back where they belong. Personally, though, SE should've added a item level sync on the new dungeons so they don't get the faceroll treatement after a month has passed and DPS can slack off again by overgearing the current content.