PVP Gear & Materia... Should it be removed?

[DBthaONE]

Ok, so I got on the forums because I was wondering how pvp materia is weighed (does +2 Sleep Resistance = -2 sec Sleep duration?) and came to find out what I dreaded. I must say that I don't live on the forums. I read a little bit if it piques my interest, ask a question that may/may not be answered, or just want to see any notices (savage clears, recruiting, etc). So I missed this announcement from a community rep:

As The Feast will be played with an item level sync it will be treated the same as Seal Rock, where morale and the effects of materia will not be taken into account. Additionally, in order to open it up to a wider range of players, consumable items such as food and potions cannot be used.

TBH, I was originally gonna rant about how this is BS and mean-spirited to players who grinded and so on. After drinking some tea for my sore throat, I calmed down. This still does leave me with this question:

Why is this gear and materia here in the first place? At this point, can't they just not add anymore pvp gear? Wouldn't it make more sense just have it as a crafted glamour piece if that's the worth of it?

Sure, I get it, make people grind for that piece of gear so they keep playing the content. Make things "normalized" so even the newest of players can have a fair shot and are not ostracized. I admit, I did not like WD because I felt that if you didn't have the pvp skills and gear it was unbearably painful, thus I didn't do it (I stopped after about 10 or so matches).

I admit, when others complained about how players were able to buy old pvp gear and equip it with having the earlier required pvp rank(s), I said "why does it matter when this gear isn't relevant anymore?" Now I kinda feel the same way. Why have rank requirements if it's not actually relevant? I put in the work, I grinded the gear, and surprisingly, I could care less if someone had it handed to them; I already have what I wanted. Please SE don't make it so I grinded for gear that was ultimately glamour which I wouldn't have done, excluding the rank 50 monk weapons - them dragons are BAF!


TL;DR: Why have pvp gear and materia if there's no benefit to having it?

[Zzxy]

I aggree with the materia in that they should just remove it at this point or scale up the original WD to 60 for us to find use for them. But even then, I fear that an upscaled WD would be no-man's land filled with Rank 50 people in their PVP gear if it were to still take materia and morale into account.

I could care less if someone had it handed to them

I would, setting the MNK/NIN Rank 50 set as my long term goal was what kept me coming back to the queue and grinding out the ranks. It was the driving force and gear lust that pushed me to keep trying and keep coming back (even after my GC fought fiercely for second place while the leading GC held 3 nodes).

Heck, it probably made me more self aware of the strategies and pitfalls people would make playing Frontlines just from all the matches I've played.

Removing the gear/rank-restrictions just gives players less incentive to queue up to an already struggling mode. You'd get a lot of people outright forgetting about pvp once they have the pieces they want if that were the case.

tl;dr pvp gear can be great incentive and if were taken out, what'd you replace em with? (Minions? Titles? Mounts?)

[DBthaONE]

I [agree] with the materia in that they should just remove it at this point or scale up the original WD to 60 for us to find use for them. But even then, I fear that an upscaled WD would be no-man's land filled with Rank 50 people in their PVP gear if it were to still take materia and morale into account.

That might be true, or it might not, but we'll never know if they don't try.

tl;dr pvp gear can be great incentive and if were taken out, what'd you replace em with? (Minions? Titles? Mounts?)

They have mounts and titles already. Can they add more? SURE. If that's the incentive for people, then by all means continue to add more.

I understand the incentive to keep people continuing pvp. I understand that you'd be mad if others had it handed to them; although i would not care, you have your own opinion. My point is that why are they included if they do not have a purpose? If they don't have an actual purpose then they should be treated as glamour, which they ultimately are right now. However, that's an awful grind just for glamour pieces.

My point is that the materia and gear SHOULD be purposeful if it's included.

[Mutemutt]

I understand the incentive to keep people continuing pvp. I understand that you'd be mad if others had it handed to them; although i would not care, you have your own opinion. My point is that why are they included if they do not have a purpose? If they don't have an actual purpose then they should be treated as glamour, which they ultimately are right now. However, that's an awful grind just for glamour pieces.

I would say being an incentive to actually take part is a valid purpose, but anyway I wonder why you would ask if the pvp gear should be removed in the first place. What's there to be gained in removing something you've said is an incentive to keep people playing pvp? I feel like you asked the question and then gave reasons for it to stay right after.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Why is this gear and materia here in the first place? At this point, can't they just not add anymore pvp gear? Wouldn't it make more sense just have it as a crafted glamour piece if that's the worth of it?

The highest ranked gear is there as an incentive. Replacing them with crafted glamours would be counterproductive.

The PvP materia were put in because the devs thought that the status effect meta would take priority over boosting DpS secondaries. They were wrong and have been trying to figure out how to fix the mess.

Right now the Dev team are focused on making certain that The Feast is balanced which is the reason for the i150 sync and materia deactivation. In future seasons, higher tier Feast matches might sync to higher ilevels or even be unsynced.

[Nalien]

IMO, we should have two types of PvP;

Balanced matches, in which gear, stats, consumables, etc. should not be a factor. Gear might provide a very small edge, but it is still and edge I don't think should exist in a balanced and competitive environment. Accessibility is also an issue here, if people need to grind out sets to enter stuff like Feast, they're not going to be able to access it right away.

Unbalanced matches, in which anything goes. Gear, etc. can all matter, and balancing the "matches" would fall on the individual.

Right now we're completely lacking the later. Duels (provided they're open world) would be a great way to introduce some of it, though. A Warrior versus Black Mage is inherently unbalanced, when it comes to duels the individuals would consider this, though. If I know I can't beat a Warrior on my Black Mage, I wont accept that duel, simple as that, I have other Jobs I can opt for instead. Similar thing for gear differences; If I run into someone who has done Gordias (Savage) and has full i210, they might have an obvious advantage, but if I've done PvP enough, I might have a i180 PvP set which jumps to i210 for PvP. The gear would then have purpose.

At this point I'd be tempted to revamp Secure/Slaughter into a Diadem style zone which we can just jump right into with no wait, with balance going out the window. Slap some Grand Company NPCs around to ensure something is always going on and to deter spawn camping. Arguably that reduces it to mere PvE content, but it would still be a PvP zone. You'd jump in, get kills and help take objectives in order to score points (which now go towards a Diadem style objective for rewards, rather than a win condition) and if it's unpopular, you might never see another soul. Given we can all just jump in whenever though, I imagine there would always be some PvP going on. Balance becomes something of an issue when one Grand Company sends in an Alliance to own the map, but I think I'd find that fairly entertaining... There would be no more victory condition, they'd just be farming points for their rewards and sticking around to ruin your day, you can then organize your own Grand Company to fight back. That completely flips the current Grand Company dynamic in PvP, as well. Queue issues are gone, and instead you have something that lends itself to patriotism.

Duels and a Diadem style Secure/Slaughter would work fairly well as battlegrounds where PvP gear can matter, IMO. Keep it out of the competitive scene, though. All that does is make matches unbalanced and harder to access for new players.

[DBthaONE]

I would say being an incentive to actually take part is a valid purpose, but anyway I wonder why you would ask if the pvp gear should be removed in the first place. What's there to be gained in removing something you've said is an incentive to keep people playing pvp? I feel like you asked the question and then gave reasons for it to stay right after.

Forgive me if my point wasn't clear. Taking part in pvp, just for the sake of doing it is a valid purpose. My point is why have gear inherent to pvp, that is not utilized in pvp?

The highest ranked gear is there as an incentive. Replacing them with crafted glamours would be counterproductive.

In future seasons, higher tier Feast matches might sync to higher ilevels or even be unsynced.

Highest ranking gear? The gets synced. That'd be like getting i210 Savage gear but it has the EXACT same stats (values included) as the i190 Normal gear. SE MIGHT add ________? Hmmmm..... SE's track record with "might" isn't too good.

[Iagainsti]

Currently, the PVP gear has Morale on it; what Morale does is sync the gear to a higher Ilvl. Currently the Highest Tier pvp set will sync to 210 in content that takes morale into account. The Feast is being released without a morale check, the ranked matches being released in 3.21 may take it into account. Rank 40 something currently, since I haven't really grinded it since the drop of 3.0, but I'm definitely going to this week to make sure my Black mage has the left side gear.

[Mutemutt]

Forgive me if my point wasn't clear. Taking part in pvp, just for the sake of doing it is a valid purpose. My point is why have gear inherent to pvp, that is not utilized in pvp?

If people like to pvp just to pvp, they will take part whether gear is involved or not, but my point is this: if you acknowledge that having gear inherent to pvp helps keep it active, what is there to gain from removing it? You ask if it should be removed and then point out the good aspects of having the gear tied to pvp. What I'm not seeing is the good that comes from having the gear removed. If there's no gain, and this is just removing incentive just because, then I have to say no to removing the gear.

[Emper]

PvP materia, no materia working in Frontlines, and the morale stat are a confusing mess. This makes getting into the PvP community all the more intimidating for newcomers.

The fact that people are discussing how morale works in this very thread, illustrates my point.

I don't think PvP gear and materia need to be removed so much as reworked to be more clear, especially regarding the differences in rules between all the PvP modes.