Samurai the next tank XD

[SpookyGhost]

Too bad so much people complained about SCH and SMN branching from Arcanist, even though both jobs are very powerful...

SCH/SMN was a... weird... concept. The biggest problem with it is that you can level SMN to 60 and suddenly you've also got a SCH to 60 - this sounds useful but it also means you were potentially not touching SCH at all for 30 levels and your only experience with it is going to be through the job quests, unless you decide to arbitrarily go through every dungeon again. It's a difficult problem to solve, though, mainly due to the class being tacked on to both jobs. There's probably something they could've done to fix that, though I think making jobs separate from classes altogether is better as it allows them to fully flesh out that job's toolkit without having to work around connecting one class' skill set to two possibly largely different jobs (ie Templar and Dragoon).

[Kaeoni]

The biggest problem with it is that you can level SMN to 60 and suddenly you've also got a SCH to 60

This applies to me. I lack the experience to play Smn proficiently. So many skills to figure out, and all at once, so it's kinda overwhelming. I could fix this by like... Putting the time in. But I would have preferred to level it by itself. Also sharing Stat allocation if you play both is a real pain in the ass. Need to carry around those dealy things all the time to reset if you're switching. Not a huge deal.... but It's annoying and gets old.

[Reynhart]

SCH/SMN was a... weird... concept. The biggest problem with it is that you can level SMN to 60 and suddenly you've also got a SCH to 60 - this sounds useful but it also means you were potentially not touching SCH at all for 30 levels and your only experience with it is going to be through the job quests, unless you decide to arbitrarily go through every dungeon again.

It's not really a "game design" problem. Yes, you can level up a lvl 60 healer without any healing experience thanks to this. But since you could technically level anything by doing only low-level dungeons (Providing the Duty Roulette always give you one) or levequests, you could end with a any lvl 60 job without any real field experience.

Or you could end with a level 60 crafter without crafting anything

I'd say that this is even a good idea to introduce people to healing. Queuing time as a DPS can be a real pain. So you could see this as "Ok, you like SMN ? Well try healing as a SCH and, in the end, you will play your beloved SMN, too".

That's why I posted, loooooooong ago, that all classes should have one DPS job, and one healer/tank job.
Were DRK a DPS branching from Gladiator, everybody would have leveled PLD

[SpookyGhost]

It's not really a "game design" problem. Yes, you can level up a lvl 60 healer without any healing experience thanks to this. But since you could technically level anything by doing only low-level dungeons (Providing the Duty Roulette always give you one) or levequests, you could end with a any lvl 60 job without any real field experience.

That, also, is a game design problem. :P

[Reynhart]

That, also, is a game design problem. :P

You can't force people to be competent at their job.
Or better, it's not worth it to make leveling harder to make sure "bad" people play all their jobs properly as opposed to help involved people progress faster.

From a Developers standpoint it means less time spent playing their game.

I understand that. But since they give more and more options to leveling faster and faster, I really doubt that "leveling process" is a playtime they focus on.

And, sadly, the fact you can level everything means you can easily clear almost every dungeon without putting real effort in one specific job. I once ended in T10 with a WAR that didn't even unlocked Infuriate. Apart from that, he was a really competent BRD and WHM.

Land Sea Sky for example is from what I can tell a teaching tool to make players more comfortable with Savage and playing their own class effectively.

Like you, I think the "comfortable" part is the most important one. I'm pretty there are hundreds of people out there that play very well, but are just afraid of going into Savage, either by the content itself or by the players they'll end up with. SSS is a good way to tell them "Don't worry, you can do it"

For your TL;DR, see the first part of this post. It's just my opinion, though.

[Tanathya]

It's not like they couldn't have worked around the SMN/SCH concept and made it so you had Templar unlocked at lv30 and leveled separately from LNC, just like the new jobs. Let's, uh, think outside the box, maybe? That's not even hard to do, branching doesn't mean it's gotta be exactly what we know.

[Kaeoni]

You can't force people to be competent at their job.

They give more and more options to leveling faster and faster, I really doubt that "leveling process" is a playtime they focus on.

And, sadly, the fact you can level everything means you can easily clear almost every dungeon without putting real effort in one specific job.

It's true, you can't force anyone to be competent at their class.
However, people are deserving of a chance, and at least they familiarize themselves with with skills and abilities available to them.

I've played since the beginning. Fates were at one time the fastest way to level, Dungeons then got buffed and are now top exp. I don't think Levequests are a viable option personally. But outside those 2 first methods I'm not sure what faster ways you're talking about. To me they're quite slow and enough time to familiarize yourself with the class and what it's capable of. ofc it's going to take a lot of time and effort to really nail a class. And that isn't something you're going to get from dungeons alone no. but it gives you a solid base. Which is imo fundamental.

It's not like they couldn't have worked around the SMN/SCH concept and made it so you had Templar unlocked at lv30 and leveled separately from LNC, just like the new jobs. Let's, uh, think outside the box, maybe? That's not even hard to do, branching doesn't mean it's gotta be exactly what we know.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad Idea.

However, some classes are still starting out at level 1. And unless they seriously fast track those levels up to level 30, you're still decreasing overall playtime. My concern isn't veteran players or whatever. My concern is for new players. We could add new systems to make it easier and faster for them. I'm not against it. What i'm against is the alienation of new blood. I would hate to perpetuate an idea that prevents new players from potentially loving the game.

I mean, not a lot of time is spent in those low levels, I get it. I really do. But we gotta at least try remember what it was like back then. If I couldn't Que up for dungeons as Archer back in the day due to lack of people, or whatever reason. I'm left to think either "no one is playing this game" Or "this is so boring, if it's this boring now and i'm stuck doing stupid fates and having limited Levequests per day. Who's to say the rest of the game is any different"

[Tanathya]

Snip

It is no different from what they've done with DRK, AST, and MCH. They start at lv30. Even with SCH if you ask me, as it changes roles once you pick that up at 30.

[Kaeoni]

It is no different from what they've done with DRK, AST, and MCH. They start at lv30. Even with SCH if you ask me, as it changes roles once you pick that up at 30.

You're right. Drk, Ast, Mch do follow similar though not exactly the same rules and that also kinda worries me (in that there is even less activity in lower levels). But you at least play the class you're leveling on those 3. You don't level Ast to level up your Mch.

[Violette]

You can't force people to be competent at their job.

Actually, you can. Carrot/stick them hardcore when they're in your static.
Got a monk up 100 dps back in scob.

Also: What the hell is going on here.