ninja pulling hunts

[Mimilu]

I don't even bother with A or S rank hunts anymore.
It doesn't have to do with early pulls or it dying before I get there but more with the horrible amount of lag I get when I get to the mark because of all the people there, even with effects turned off for people not in my party. I can't even DPS or heal enough to get full credit and usually end up with the bare-minimum of rewards. =A=

[FaileExperiment]

So... what, if more people show up and start hitting it suddenly it gains a bunch of HP even if it's already sitting at like 10%? Putting item levels into the mix seems like it would be unnecessarily resource intensive, especially for S rank hunts where you literally have hundreds of people in combat with them if they happen to pop during peak hours. I think people just need to accept that hunts weren't meant to be downed by half the damn server and resolve to do everything they can to get to the next one faster.

Not sure how it would be done, but it's a good idea. As for your example, yes if a bunch of people joined at the last 10% (which doesn't happen all that often), then it would gain HP proportional to the number of people that join, though it wouldn't change the HP %. Not really a big deal, if the algorithm was tuned correctly.

And resource intensive? Possibly, but it's not our place to speculate on that, and it isn't productive either. If the devs wanted to do it, they could. They just don't. It's still a good and workable idea, though. I do agree on your last point, however. I would still have it scale anyway, so then it wouldn't matter what people do or don't accept about hunts.

[Ilitsa]

So... what, if more people show up and start hitting it suddenly it gains a bunch of HP even if it's already sitting at like 10%? Putting item levels into the mix seems like it would be unnecessarily resource intensive, especially for S rank hunts where you literally have hundreds of people in combat with them if they happen to pop during peak hours. I think people just need to accept that hunts weren't meant to be downed by half the damn server and resolve to do everything they can to get to the next one faster.

Honestl, it works fairly decently, this is how WoW handles rare mobs now, the total stays at 10% but it gains a higher health pool with the more people that tag it, it's not perfect, but it's not bad in the slightest

[Eidolon]

Here's a counter question for you:

What makes the people who get there on the back of someone who found it, pulling it for them before they're ready, any better? Both sides are equally just as bad in my book. I hate the whiners who complain about early pulls. I hate those who go out of their way to grief others by pulling ASAP.

If you're there standing in front of the hunt, how are you not ready?

These are open world mobs, not raid bosses.

snip

If you're standing infront of it but somehow not ready, then you're not ready.
If someone else made it there, and is ready, and they pull, then what's there to complain about? You should have been ready faster. Pulling right away is not griefing.

You're arguing schemantics at that point. There are people who hunt independantly who get to the hunt - and while calling additional people / after announcing it to their LS's (Such as the ones who pull early, because let's face it - those people are more determined to find out the information to grief than anyone else is to keep them out), they weren't able to form a full party.

If you're not willing to admit the inverse, then to me that shows your bias - you need to be willing to accept both sides of this.

Basically; neither side is right. Neither side in the scenario I gave did anything to contribute. The only difference is, people fail to see the wrong in pulling ASAP (I'm trying to avoid the word 'early') is just as wrong as the people who ***** and moan about 'early pullers.'

Edit: Also wanted to add, that neither really addressed the question, which was : what makes the ASAP-pullers any better than those who want people to wait? Both ride the back of someone elses work, after all.

Edit 2: Formatting. I really prefer multiquotes.

[Canadane]

It may be socially wrong, but it's not against the ToS where a GM would be involved, my man.
People can and will do it. The topic creator here had contacted a GM about it, which is what sparked this conversation.

[Eidolon]

It may be socially wrong, but it's not against the ToS where a GM would be involved, my man.
People can and will do it. The topic creator here had contacted a GM about it, which is what sparked this conversation.

Right; forgive me - I may be missing the mark of the topic with my own bias. I dislike the people who try to call people 'whiners' for disliking early pulls, but the most common reason I see cited is that they 'didn't do any of the work so they have no right to complain.'

I dunno. Perhaps it's the hypocrisy of those thoughts that get under my skin a little. I don't think I'll change anyone's opinion on the forums, but... Eh. Coming to a meeting of the minds with other individuals is also a beneficial thing to me.

[Ashkendor]

You're arguing schemantics at that point. There are people who hunt independantly who get to the hunt - and while calling additional people / after announcing it to their LS's (Such as the ones who pull early, because let's face it - those people are more determined to find out the information to grief than anyone else is to keep them out), they weren't able to form a full party.

You don't need a full party to get credit though. I frequently get full credit solo. It's easiest to do on a tank, but a WHM can also do it. I've never really understood why people hunt on DPS classes if they have any choice in the matter at all.

I also don't understand why people persist in equating "early pulling" with "griefing."

If you're not willing to admit the inverse, then to me that shows your bias - you need to be willing to accept both sides of this.

Basically; neither side is right. Neither side in the scenario I gave did anything to contribute. The only difference is, people fail to see the wrong in pulling ASAP (I'm trying to avoid the word 'early') is just as wrong as the people who ***** and moan about 'early pullers.'

I don't have any bias either way. If people wait, cool. If people pull, oh well. It's a mob in the open world. There are no claim rules for it. It doesn't matter who found it. It can basically be pulled at any time by anyone for any reason. I just roll with it.

Edit: Also wanted to add, that neither really addressed the question, which was : what makes the ASAP-pullers any better than those who want people to wait? Both ride the back of someone elses work, after all.

That's because there's no real answer to that question. Neither can be said to be "better" than the other.

[Eidolon]

I also don't understand why people persist in equating "early pulling" with "

Simply put: people remember the bad experiences of people who pull early to troll more than the people who are simply self entitled or impatient.

That's because there's no real answer to that question. Neither can be said to be "better" than the other.

Fair nuff - you seem to understand the point so I'll take it at that.

[Whiteroom]

Right; forgive me - I may be missing the mark of the topic with my own bias. I dislike the people who try to call people 'whiners' for disliking early pulls, but the most common reason I see cited is that they 'd idn't do any of the work so they have no right to complain.'

I dunno. Perhaps it's the hypocrisy of those thoughts that get under my skin a little. I don't think I'll change anyone's opinion on the forums, but... Eh. Coming to a meeting of the minds with other individuals is also a beneficial thing to me.

Well that whole conversation gets into what is defined as an early pull. Does the person who never actively hunts and shows up late (as in at least five mins after every call) have any right to whine about missing the marks?

I see that happen all the time. When I hunt, most of the time I am actively hunting, and tend to find and call out most of the hunts. I see people in my linkshells, who get the earliest possible notification showing up like 5-7 minutes after a call, complaining. Those same people never call out when they get there, and never actively hunt, they are 100% leeches. There is one guy, who when he joins a party, just accepts the tele, and stands by the aetheryte while others hunt, he still cries at being late...

All these leeches think that the people actively hunting owe it to the to wait for some reason. Apparently the people out there, putting the work in are the selfish ones. Heck while grinding my relic, I was hunting non stop, as tank so I could get solo credit it I had no party, people were raging on me for pulling the hunts I found, three minutes after shouting. Even if I wasn't the one to pull, because I would have aggro as a full STR WAR...


In my experience, these people are the most toxic part of hunts, not anyone who pulls early.

[Eidolon]

In my experience, these people are the most toxic part of hunts, not anyone who pulls early.

Ah, do not misunderstand. I usually roll my eyes just as quick as the people who complain about early pullers. But as I said, I wish for people to understand both sides of the sentiment - that there are extremes that exist on both sides, and both sides are, to me - equally as bad.


It may be a phenomena that is unique to Balmung, but there is an entire Linkshell devoted to pulling 'as soon as they get there' - they puropsely announce it in shout as they pull in an effort to antagonize people, and they do their best to make their presence known as much as possible. They're trolls, pure and simple.

You have people like this, who do no hunting, who revel in the fact that they pull before people can get there on the back of the actual hunters.

There are plenty of individuals from both end that epitomize that toxicity. I really wish we just had mutual respect from both sides.

Edit1: I want to add something, and forgive me for doing it after the fact.

I want to say I've been subjected to the 'this guy is an early puller' bull as well, so I am not unsympathetic with people on either side. I have been called an early puller, simply because I am a WAR using full-STR and I prime my Maim off the nearby wildlife before the pull (Thus securing me in a threat lead at the very start.)

I find it disgusting when people use those macro's that run by <tt>, And I'll often call them out and point out that no, I didnt' pull the mob. Yes, I'm holding threat on it. Some of these people need to put the pitchforks away. But at the same token, some of the people who are in a hury to try and pull the mob for whatever reason need to learn a bit of patience.

Pulling ASAP doesn't really serve anyone except the self/the people in the immediate area. That's fine in its own way, but it doesn't really help anyone. The people who want for a delay on the pulls, do want a better community - but it's clear they often don't understand that to build a strong community you have to start with yourself, as can be seen from the sheer amount of virtriol they spout.