Tank Gear's Value for the Future.

[Kaurie]

People be like, "Let's nerf Fell Cleave because it's the highest potency skill on a tank class! I'm a DPS! You should be stroking my epeen instead!" Let's put it in context. War's skill potencies are as follows. 150 Heavy Swing, 200 Skull Sunder, 190 Maim, 250 Storm's Path, 270 Storm's Eye, 280 Butcher's Block.

And

ONE

MEASELY

oGCD

Brutal Swing 100.

Fell Cleave makes up for roughly 30% of a WAR's DPS.

In comparison WAR hits like a wet noodle outside of Fell Cleave. I mean if you wanted to nerf it atleast give a good reason other than "ermergerd good wars are doing better dmg then me when i play suboptimally (((". I wouldn't mind trading it for more oGCD attacks and potency boosts across the board on other skills. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't see anyone complaining about DRK's awesome MT damage. Can I has Scourge?

Honestly, cannot understand how one could say WAR DPS is not out of Whack. It's a solid 75% of DPS damage, with top WAR on FFLOGs pulling 1450 on Oppressor vs 1850 for top DPS. The WAR also pulls 85% of the top MNK listing.

Naturally, these are all top DPS and I feel averages would be better, but I can't figure out how to do that on FFLogs, or know if that information is readily available.

I've personally seen WARs pull 2nd highest DPS in fully competent parties.

[HorseBoots]

Snip.

Possibly the fact that most top FFlogs are bloated and WARs usually getting 99% uptime on any fight due to most party mechanics being centered around the rest of the party or the ability to burn cooldowns to ignore mechanics if the timing between tank swaps is graceful enough.

[Kaurie]

Possibly the fact that most top FFlogs are bloated and WARs usually getting 99% uptime on any fight due to most party mechanics being centered around the rest of the party or the ability to burn cooldowns to ignore mechanics if the timing between tank swaps is graceful enough.

Which is precisely why I wanted to have an average. However, that doesn't exclude the fact that the WAR pulled 85% of the damage of the top MNK.

It also doesn't exclude my statement, "I've personally seen WARs pull 2nd highest DPS in fully competent parties".

I actually found the current statistics:
http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/7/#...amount&boss=18

Over the past two weeks:

75th percentile puts WAR at 1026 DPS vs SMN (top) at 1261 DPS - 81.4%

50th percentile puts WAR at 910 DPS vs SMN at 1109 DPS - 82%

Max puts WAR at 1429 DPS vs BLM at 1758 DPS - 81.3%

10th percentile puts WAR at 642 DPS vs MNK at 894 DPS - 71.8%

It's presumable, that at least part of these fights, the WAR is tanking an oppressor (less likely in the MAX and more likely in 50th/10th, with 75th most likely including tanking with good stance dancing)). It's clear that, WAR is able to pull 70-80% of the damage of a DPS (even when tanking), which imo seems quite off. That said, even DRK seems pretty imbalanced with their damage output, just not as much as WAR.


EDIT/PS: I used Oppressor information, as 1. it's more-or-less single target and 2. there is a much larger pool and higher skill range of players entering A1S,

[Eidolon]

Possibly the fact that most top FFlogs are bloated

Man, I find FFXIV logs to be a very bad method of comparison. Most people don't even -care- what their DPS is at, and the ones that do are trying to find ways to bloat thier DPS as high as possible (The "#1 Monk" I hear about is often a monk that gets to just ignore mechanics and focus on DPS'ing a boss. What exactly makes them #1 in that case?)

I saw some high WAR's for A2S... who were using 2 bards, and there also just so happened to be 3 tanks in that party. xD So yea... FFXIV logs is a bad example for anything. The fact that WAR -can- do high DPS if they're given all the right conditions doesn't mean that they will. Though don't get me wrong - I'm putting out over 1.4k-1.5k on phase 1 of A3S is -awesome-, that's just the nature of burst vs. sustained.

[Kaurie]

Man, I find FFXIV logs to be a very bad method of comparison. Most people don't even -care- what their DPS is at, and the ones that do are trying to find ways to bloat thier DPS as high as possible (The "#1 Monk" I hear about is often a monk that gets to just ignore mechanics and focus on DPS'ing a boss. What exactly makes them #1 in that case?)

I saw some high WAR's for A2S... who were using 2 bards, and there also just so happened to be 3 tanks in that party. xD So yea... FFXIV logs is a bad example for anything. The fact that WAR -can- do high DPS if they're given all the right conditions doesn't mean that they will. Though don't get me wrong - I'm putting out over 1.4k-1.5k on phase 1 of A3S is -awesome-, that's just the nature of burst vs. sustained.

I see this ignore mechanics and focus on DPSing argument a bunch, but if someone ignores mechanics then they often die and produce far less DPS. FFLogs also has different percentile brackets, and not everyone on FFLogs even knows they are on it. Further, FFLogs is the only crowd sourced set of data we have. We could all throw out numbers from the run we did earlier this week, but that doesn't give a very good impression of things as a whole. Looking at 50/75 percentile statistics does.

The fact that WAR -can- do high DPS if they're given all the right conditions doesn't mean that they will.

Same can be said for any job, but balance should be designed around potential not what crappy players are putting out. Otherwise, I think BRDs need a 4-5x potency buff, because I once saw a BRD pulling 250 DPS in A1N.

[DGladius]

Honestly, cannot understand how one could say WAR DPS is not out of Whack. It's a solid 75% of DPS damage, with top WAR on FFLOGs pulling 1450 on Oppressor vs 1850 for top DPS. The WAR also pulls 85% of the top MNK listing.

I've personally seen WARs pull 2nd highest DPS in fully competent parties.

Isn't that the big point of being a WAR in FF14? Which is to be the DPS tank. A DRK tanking without grit and getting their cds proc can do just as much if not more than a WAR. DRKs do more in A4S it seems. Any good DPS won't lose to WARs and DRKs anyway. Most WARs will be offtanking and that is where they act as a DPS until they have to tank and their toolkit for dealing damage as offtank were enhanced in HW.

[Alahra]

That said, even DRK seems pretty imbalanced with their damage output, just not as much as WAR.

Yeah, honestly, both of them are probably a bit too high. I'm expecting either slight nerfs to tank damage or some slight buffs to DPS classes generally, since they've said they're adjusting most of the classes in some way. Fight mechanics often favor tanks in Savage, though, especially since they can currently essentially act as DPS. If tank stance was more required for main tank duty, the difference would likely be greater.

Of course, the main reason all this is possible is because of the STR accessory problem, which I have to assume the developers didn't really test around when setting potencies and all of that. They probably should have, but...hindsight is 20/20 and all of that.

[Kaurie]

Isn't that the big point of being a WAR in FF14? Which is to be the DPS tank. A DRK tanking without grit and getting their cds proc can do just as much if not more than a WAR. DRKs do more in A4S it seems. Any good DPS won't lose to WARs and DRKs anyway. Most WARs will be offtanking and that is where they act as a DPS until they have to tank and their toolkit for dealing damage as offtank were enhanced in HW.

Heh well, arguing here won't change anything, but the amount of damage the tanks can put out now (all 3 of them, with a focus on WAR) is absurd from my view point. It is unfortunately deteriorating the trinity, and if we continue down that line I can see this game becoming the mindless DPS-fests that we see in GW2 and BnS. Luckily, we are not quite at that point, we just have horrible game balance.

[Instrumentality]

Since Vitality AND Strength effect damage, doesn't that mean Jewelry for tanks must have both strength and vitality on it to make up for it?

Got tired of people in the tank forums telling you your ideas were wrongheaded?

Also no, this still never needs to happen. Hope this helps!

[PArcher]

Got tired of people in the tank forums telling you your ideas were wrongheaded?

Also no, this still never needs to happen. Hope this helps!

He got told he's wrong in this forum at least 4 other threads.

Its just getting really sad at this point, especially since he doesn't even have a geared tank.