Live Letter 3.2 tank changes, vit effects tank attack

[FallenWings]

What I don't understand is why people are claiming that more HP =/= more defense when it... pretty much is.

The objective of health points is to prevent death.

So to give an example that is easier to relate to; say you have Helmet A with 4 layers of protection and Helmet B with 8 layers.
A bullet is shot and goes through 3 layers. Helmet A is damaged and needs to be immediately repaired to survive the next bullet. Helmet B is damaged and can weather another shot before needing to be repaired. Clearly Helmet B provides more defense since it can weather 2 bullets versus Helmet A which can only prevent 1.

The idea currently is that the extra 4 layers of helmet B is unrequired since the TRADEOFF being that you couldn't carry a AK-47 with it and had to use a measly Pistol instead.

The only real thing healers and tanks need to do in raids in terms of mitigation is match the rate of damage being taken with heals. The benefits of extra HP was not preferred due to the subsequent trade offs. Benefits being insurance from auto-crits, utilization of critical heals in rotational healing(this is big) and the extra healer GCD in the first instance of damage(this is comparatively minuscule compared to the 30%ish damage gain a tank would get from STR accessories). Being able to utilize a critical heal meant less healing required (thus utilizing that extra defense beyond the first instance of damage) and thus more opportunity for healer dps!

But come the new update the soldiers will be hoisting weights and carrying both the 8 layer helmet AND a sub machine gun!

The only reason someone can be reasonably discontent with the projected change is the slight nerfing of tank damage if Vit contribution to damage is below 100%. Which I am. > I WANT MY AK-47 NOT A DAMN SMG.

[Archaell]

The only reason someone can be reasonably discontent with the projected change is the slight nerfing of tank damage if Vit contribution to damage is below 100%. Which I am. > I WANT MY AK-47 NOT A DAMN SMG.

Then go play dps. :3

You are supposed to be that guy with a hand gun and shield (better than helmets in your example). So you can cover the squad behind you. If your shield gets destroyed - everybody behind you is dead. So every layer is a good layers.

We are supposed to get more mechanics and less dps checks, so it is time to use better shields. Remember there is an engineer behind you repairing the shield and the more durable it is the better for him. He wants to shoot few bullets too.

Just a simple thing like the Stoneskin etc. gets better with every point of HP. And I know that you are all gods, but there are also many players who are not as godly, which atm. makes it bloody hard to finish the healer dps rotation without the less skilled warrior ending up on the floor.

[FallenWings]

Then go play dps. :3

You are supposed to be that guy with a hand gun and shield (better than helmets in your example). So you can cover the squad behind you. If your shield gets destroyed - everybody behind you is dead. So every layer is a good layers.

We are supposed to get more mechanics and less dps checks, so it is time to use better shields. Remember there is an engineer behind you repairing the shield and the more durable it is the better for him. He wants to shoot few bullets too.

A tank is not just a meatshield or a healer just a healbot.

Priority is in their main roles no doubt but finding balance in what is needed to achieve maximum efficiency is damn well more interesting than, "Lol I'm just here to hold this shield up. Shoot faster noobs."

I like the idea of being able to contribute a meaningful amount to the completion of a fight rather than purely just be there to prevent a wipe for other people and get carried. Feels better when I'm an actual fighter rather than a piece of armor y'know?

God forbid they reduce the DPS checks to laughable levels wherein people need only play at a low skill threshold to complete the 'hardest' set of fights. Skip-roping mechanics alone isn't exactly the most challenging thing.


dankasspersontellingmetoplayadpsthenerveofsomepeople

[Reynhart]

The only reason someone can be reasonably discontent with the projected change is the slight nerfing of tank damage if Vit contribution to damage is below 100%.

Tank damage won't be nerf. At worst, it won't increase as much as you expected it to be.
In 3.2, you will replace all your gear for more powerful ones, so your damage will increase. And since you don't know what damage you were supposed to do in raids (Regarding monsters' defense vs your attack) or damage you were supposed to take (Regarding monsters' attack vs your defense), you won't even feel it.

Testing on dummy is fine and all, but, in the end, it doesn't really matter for clearing raids.

[Kuwagami]

And since you don't know what damage you were supposed to do in raids (Regarding monsters' defense vs your attack)

This one is easy. Monster defense is set at zero. You do rhe same damage regardless you're hitting bahamut or a lv1 ladybug. And we can pretty much figure out what the dps of the next ilevel tier will be by correlating the previous lvl60 upgrades (as we have 5 tiers of lv60 stuff already).

A nerf in tank damage would be spotted quite easily and quickly

[Archaell]

A tank is not just a meatshield or a healer just a healbot.

Dps checks aren't the only way to increase the difficulty.

Tank's job is mainly to mitigate damage, so the next raid could be focused on mitigation. Maybe SE could shorten defensive CDs and increase the volume of damage going towards the tank.

Imagine how much fun you could have if there would be a short window where you could turn dps stance on, but if you would do it one second too late you wiped the raid. So much hardcore efficiency out there in the mitigation oriented content.

[FallenWings]

As potentially fun as that might sound for the more defensive orientated type of people, its difficult to execute due to the fact that not everyone will have sub 100 ping, a disadvantage that needs to be accounted for in content and to an extent the battle system(can't play action mmos to a competitive degree as an Australian). Mitigation thus far is relatively proactive/passive meaning that the whole battle system for tanks needs to be overhauled in which most actions must be defensive in some form, e.g a GCD that blocks the next attack etc. Then you would only for the most part need 1 tank and you once again, don't contribute to the completion of a fight traditionally and are just sitting there waiting to be carried. I mean, you could sit there and block all day but that's not going to stop the guy from trying to skull thump you.

So far nothing really pushes you to go above and beyond other than harsh DPS checks + mechanics. Faust was a huge wake up call to everyone, a clear indication that we were not as good as we thought.

Mechanics are mostly just deterrents to dealing enough damage to the enemy before they self-destruct.

If everyone and their mother can do it at low efficiency then it's not really worthy of being called a 'hard' raid then ey?
My 5cents anyways. I don't even know where I am anymore.

[Reynhart]

Faust was a huge wake up call to everyone, a clear indication that we were not as good as we thought.

Good "DPS wise". I'm pretty sure some people have no problem beating the shit out of Faust and still brilliantely mess up every mechanic of T9.

Which one is the best ?

[Kuwagami]

Maybe we could have both ?
Dps checks on trash with no particular mecanics but big burst, then mechanics heavy bosses that you can slug a bit more (as long as the MP allow it or soft enrages or anything) but probaly won't because the trash (or rather here, mini boss) acts as the "do you have it ?" dps check.

[Phoenicia]

What I don't understand is why people are claiming that more HP =/= more defense when it... pretty much is.

The objective of health points is to prevent death.

That is true, but that is only half the picture.

I said this else where, but the number above the pink bar (HP) does not matter as much as how effective that bar is. That's not only in how it is lost, but also how it is recovered. Without efficiency, it just becomes a sponge for MP. Remember WAR 2.0, anyone?

Basically, larger effective HP without bigger effective heals to go with it is just a burden on the healers, no more, no less.

Trading damage output, which in all 3 tank classes helps me as a healer with my job via self recovery, for a damage/MP cushion is just not a trade-off I'm very happy about. But before I point out any discontent, I would rather wait and see what the change exactly is and what we're actually dealing with.

The one DEFINITE upside I see to this is that tanks can actually get the most benefit by actually hitting that need button when an accessory drop instead of begging their raid group to allow them to roll on STR accessories. It wasn't fun that my healer and ninja weren't happy with me "competing" with, notice not even having priority over, their secondary specs for those accessories that ARE BiS for a main job in the raid group. And it definitely wasn't fun forking 10~20mil worth of gil in crafted penta-melded accessories.