The Illusion of Choice

[WellFooled]

No one is denying you to play how you want. You do you and roll that ice mage bae.If you don't play optimally because of your own enjoyment? Expect to be kicked. You're potentially ruining it for them.

I couldn't care less about your enjoyment. Get on our level plx.

The OP isn't trying to justify ice mages (or any other build) in the current game, they're defending the concept of customizing our battle gameplay with features like talent tress, sub jobs, merit points, etc which FFXIV is lacking. You're making a valid argument, but you're in the wrong discussion.

Of course ice mages, as the game is now, are terrible, but if the game were designed around the idea of customizing your gameplay between ice mages, fire, lightning, or whatever, even if ice mages were slightly less practical many of us would still enjoy having the choice.

[Pence]

snip.

Maybe you're in the wrong genre? Because regardless of what anyone does it'll ALWAYS come down to 1 build. Be ice for this, be fire for this, be thunder for this. You can give 1000 options but they'll all be pushed aside for 1. Taking away these options is a GOOD thing for the game. You don't have the ice mages running around doing 400 DPS on Bismark. Customization is fun until you shake ya noggin.

[TheUltimateSeph]

No one is denying you to play how you want. You do you and roll that ice mage bae. It's your $15. But remember: it's the parties $45. If you don't play optimally because of your own enjoyment? Expect to be kicked. You're potentially ruining it for them.

I couldn't care less about your enjoyment. I find mine in clearing content and not taking 25m in a 15m dungeon.

Illusion of choice is real...Yoshi acknowledges it, WOW has acknowledged it, everyone with half a brain has. Get on our level plx.

You are rude and totally missed the point.

The OP isn't trying to justify ice mages (or any other build) in the current game, they're defending the concept of customizing our battle gameplay with features like talent tress, sub jobs, merit points, etc which FFXIV is lacking. You're making a valid argument, but you're in the wrong discussion.

Of course ice mages, as the game is now, are terrible, but if the game were designed around the idea of customizing your gameplay between ice mages, fire, lightning, or whatever, even if ice mages were slightly less practical many of us would still enjoy having the choice.

Maybe you're in the wrong genre? Because regardless of what anyone does it'll ALWAYS come down to 1 build. Be ice for this, be fire for this, be thunder for this. You can give 1000 options but they'll all be pushed aside for 1. Taking away these options is a GOOD thing for the game. You don't have the ice mages running around doing 400 DPS on Bismark. Customization is fun until you shake ya noggin.

And since when is taking away options in a game EVER a good thing that adds substance to the experience? If there is only ever one way to do it things will get real stale real fast. People like you just....ugh.

Also again with the ice mage thing, totally missing the point OP was trying to make.

[WellFooled]

Maybe you're in the wrong genre?

If anything, it's the other way around. Many MMORPG are very heavy in customization. I've played about half a dozen MMOs, which is a small sample size I admit, but FFXIV is the only one to offer no way to customize your job. Can you think of any MMORPG that offer as few choices as FFXIV?

Because regardless of what anyone does it'll ALWAYS come down to 1 build. Be ice for this, be fire for this, be thunder for this. You can give 1000 options but they'll all be pushed aside for 1. Taking away these options is a GOOD thing for the game.

In bleeding edge end game raiding, you're absolutely right, but for most of the game's playerbase it wouldn't work like this nor has it ever. In those other MMOs I've played with skill trees you would always encounter huge varieties of play styles. In WoW I was a Feral Druid, leaning toward tanking, but all over the world there were caster Druids, healing Druids, dps druids, druids that focused on mobility for PvP, or those that focused on crowd control. There were dozens of good options for how to play that one class and all of them were played.

We're all the same for balance reasons. Very simple. So so simple.

Perfect balance is an impossible goal. Even by taking away most choices it's still impossible to obtain. Even the most hardcore of esport games can't achieve perfect balance. So since balance is impossible I would prefer imbalance that's filled with fun choices to imbalance that is nothing but rigid uniformity.

Perfect balance is impossible, all that is needed for balance in an MMO is a reasonable margin

[SendohJin]

If anything, it's the other way around. Many MMORPG are very heavy in customization. I've played about half a dozen MMOs, which is a small sample size I admit, but FFXIV is the only one to offer no way to customize your job. Can you think of any MMORPG that offer as few choices as FFXIV?

which of those let's you change class/job on the same character?

[Nominous]

Maybe you're in the wrong genre? Because regardless of what anyone does it'll ALWAYS come down to 1 build.

Not exactly. Even in the current state of the game we see this proven wrong. There IS a best raid/group comp, yet it's far from true that everyone only abides by the one. I'm kind of just reiterating what OP said, but that's a very legitimate thing to take away from the conversation.

Also, there's definitely a couple MMO's that have implemented multiple builds and maintained some semblance of balance, without "Illusion of choice". It's all about how much the developer puts into it.

[Zojha]

Even in the current state of the game we see this proven wrong. There IS a best raid/group comp, yet it's far from true that everyone only abides by the one.

There is also a best rotation/playstyle which far from everyone abides to - much to the dismay of many people. I would not at all be surprised however if even our lovely ice mages had friends that take them into group content, regardless of how suboptimal their setup or play is.

I find that argument fairly weak, because it leads to the conclusion that our playstyle already is very much customizable, you only need to find people to endure your suboptimal decisions.

[Nominous]

There is also a best rotation/playstyle which far from everyone abides to - much to the dismay of many people. I would not at all be surprised however if even our lovely ice mages had friends that take them into group content, regardless of how suboptimal their setup or play is.

I find that argument fairly weak, because it leads to the conclusion that our playstyle already is very much customizable, you only need to find people to endure your suboptimal decisions.

Yeah, exactly the point. OP said it first, but I definitely agree. Most of the content that's actually difficult is taken on by groups of friends (usually), and either immediately, or after some time, they'll be willing to allow you to play what Job you want to play, even if it is sub-optimal. Most content goes that way, tbh.

Not to mention, gear sets are also a choice where a BiS certainly exists, even though not everyone abides by the BiS. More people do than don't, and it's not a big deal as perhaps a sub-optimal skill build could prove, but still. Food for thought.

The next logical step for XIV is to give level 2 traits, or traits for 50-60 skills. But after that, I'm pretty worried about this strict adherence to no extra customization. Unless, of course, we end up with like 5 jobs per role or something (melee/tank/healer/ranged/mage).

[Reynhart]

I find that argument fairly weak, because it leads to the conclusion that our playstyle already is very much customizable, you only need to find people to endure your suboptimal decisions.

You make it sound like "suboptimal" automatically means "abysmally lower than the optimal setup"

I agree that it's difficult to create severals builds that are exactly on par but I think you can legitimately make them within 10% to each other.

It's like saying that you must endure an i170 character where you could have ended with an i175, in Expert Roulette. Or a PLD instead of a WAR...Not that big of a deal.