The Illusion of Choice

[KaitlanKela]

Honestly, I'd be fine if my party played in a sub-optimal way if it was negligibly sub optimal in non-savage. For example, I tolerate it when my healers don't dps, even though when I heal, I dps and I think it's best. Jumping to "ice mage" tolerance is a bit extreme. I think what OP was suggesting is different ways to play/build a job that are all "right," some play a little better or worse depending on the context.

That said, I don't think it will ever happen because Yoshi has been outspokenly against that several times. He has concerns. I'd like to illustrate these with a (simplified) example:

Say on black mage there are three builds: fire, ice and thunder. Say that they somehow manage to balance them to where there's a negligible difference between each for most content, which in and of itself is a big assumption. And say you had to lock in your BLM to play a certain way because gear stats, or whatever. So you gear a "fire" mage. But when the next raiding tier comes out, ice mage is ever so slightly favored for the raid. So only ice mages get taken into the cutting-edge content. Sure, you can roll fire in the dungeons and normal mode trials, but if you got locked out of raiding for a cycle, that would suck for you. And even if the next raids people started taking fire, you're only in the raiding content for half a year before it gets switched again. Why stay subbed if you play for the raids you can't get into? It's not a good business model.

Great feedback for sure. However, when I picture having builds, I picture it being very easy to swap between them. Much easier than it currently is to swap jobs (due to gear). We can be a Fire Mage in 1 raiding tier, and an Ice in the next. We could even be a Fire for A1S, A3S, A4S but an Ice for A2S due to the hypothetically superior AoE. Most games that I play have the ability to save builds that you can swap depending on your content.

EDITING REPLY HERE BECAUSE THAT DARN DAILY LIMIT. Ahem...

My reply to this is that if it's so easy to switch between builds, then this is something we already have. For example, I have a different build for my SCH for PvE vs PvP. One is all MND all the way, the other stacks some fending accs to increase my health. Two builds, two gearsets, one job. This is what you're asking for, correct?

What is really needed, then, is not the capability, but rather the content. PvE and PvP are obvious examples of content that requires different things from its jobs by nature. As they say, Healers are Tanks in PvP. If the raids were designed to emphasize different sub-stats, for example, a boss that aggroed to the healers for a certain move that couldn't be survived without the added HP from fending, then we would see those builds come alive.

The difficulty with that and why it's hard to make such content is the limiting loot system. I greeded my fending accs and got them from luck. Imagine needing fending for a raid as a healer, when you're only allowed to greed and the tanks need them too. It's prohibitive. And tomes? If I needed MND for one turn of the raid, fending for another, aiming for another (think, high-accuracy cap boss), I'd be dropping weeks and weeks into the accessories alone. And some people have more than one job and more than one character: the gameplay time/grind required for this would be off-putting, I think. I could be wrong.

[Pence]

For the rest, this game offers lots of opportunities to try out stuff, I dont understand and never will understand why we all must be copied pasted players when playing similar class.

You probably don't understand because you're not playing FFXIV? Lots of opportunities to try stuff out? Gurl say wah!?

We're all the same for balance reasons. Very simple. So so simple.

[Darkstride]

Maybe you're in the wrong genre? Because regardless of what anyone does it'll ALWAYS come down to 1 build. Be ice for this, be fire for this, be thunder for this. You can give 1000 options but they'll all be pushed aside for 1. Taking away these options is a GOOD thing for the game. You don't have the ice mages running around doing 400 DPS on Bismark. Customization is fun until you shake ya noggin.

Diversity CAN be done properly, even in an MMO, but the game needs to be built properly for that style of gameplay. Builds don't necessarily have to boil down to 1 that trumps all the rest. The problem is that FFXIV is designed in a way that doesn't promote diversity at all. Yes, we are able to change jobs, but those jobs are very clearly defined and there is no room for customization or change. Materia is the laziest form of customization I think I've ever seen and a wonderful example of "the illusion of choice".

I'm not necessarily saying that it's a "problem", it's just the way things work in FFXIV. However, customization isn't limited because it's an MMO, it's limited because SE designed it that way.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

your analogy is biaised..when you have people at diner your goal is to satisfy the mass and offer the best, not really a choice. In a game, ultimately, you look for your enjoyment first and foremost, with some exceptions, therefore your options are not exclusive of each other they are just not applying since they dont *play* on the same level.

First of all, the analogy the OP provided was a "single individual" scenario. No matter what you would choose, the "majority", or in other words: you, would approve. If you're playing alone for anything, no one's going to care what you do or how you do it.
Secondly, this is exactly what the illusion of choice is in an online game, especially for group content. Let's say I choose to be a DPS white mage and refuse to heal. That's a choice, but would you take one with you?

[Malzian]

Do what you want yourself but not when you play with others.

Yeah, this is the thing right here. You're not playing on your own any more so you need to consider the other players in your group. The unfortunate part is that there's a lot of people who don't see this as a two-way street and expect that you should do things they way they expect you to do them and will make the run even more of a royal pain just for it.

[TheUltimateSeph]

No one is denying you to play how you want. You do you and roll that ice mage bae. It's your $15. But remember: it's the parties $45. If you don't play optimally because of your own enjoyment? Expect to be kicked. You're potentially ruining it for them.

I couldn't care less about your enjoyment. I find mine in clearing content and not taking 25m in a 15m dungeon.

Illusion of choice is real...Yoshi acknowledges it, WOW has acknowledged it, everyone with half a brain has. Get on our level plx.

You are rude and totally missed the point.

The OP isn't trying to justify ice mages (or any other build) in the current game, they're defending the concept of customizing our battle gameplay with features like talent tress, sub jobs, merit points, etc which FFXIV is lacking. You're making a valid argument, but you're in the wrong discussion.

Of course ice mages, as the game is now, are terrible, but if the game were designed around the idea of customizing your gameplay between ice mages, fire, lightning, or whatever, even if ice mages were slightly less practical many of us would still enjoy having the choice.

Maybe you're in the wrong genre? Because regardless of what anyone does it'll ALWAYS come down to 1 build. Be ice for this, be fire for this, be thunder for this. You can give 1000 options but they'll all be pushed aside for 1. Taking away these options is a GOOD thing for the game. You don't have the ice mages running around doing 400 DPS on Bismark. Customization is fun until you shake ya noggin.

And since when is taking away options in a game EVER a good thing that adds substance to the experience? If there is only ever one way to do it things will get real stale real fast. People like you just....ugh.

Also again with the ice mage thing, totally missing the point OP was trying to make.

[MeiUshu]

snip

this is still your choice, choices implie consequences. the illusion is to believe that all your choices are the right one, and all your choices will be met with approval, but then do you need the approval of anyone when you make a choice? The difficulty is to live with the consequences which most cant too hard you know

As for the rest, you can play different ways without it being it that wrong, not optimal but not wrong, just people believe that only one way is viable and that is when all of us from individual becomes robot. I dont agree with it..but nobody has to agree with me either, that is my choice, right ?

[WellFooled]

Maybe you're in the wrong genre?

If anything, it's the other way around. Many MMORPG are very heavy in customization. I've played about half a dozen MMOs, which is a small sample size I admit, but FFXIV is the only one to offer no way to customize your job. Can you think of any MMORPG that offer as few choices as FFXIV?

Because regardless of what anyone does it'll ALWAYS come down to 1 build. Be ice for this, be fire for this, be thunder for this. You can give 1000 options but they'll all be pushed aside for 1. Taking away these options is a GOOD thing for the game.

In bleeding edge end game raiding, you're absolutely right, but for most of the game's playerbase it wouldn't work like this nor has it ever. In those other MMOs I've played with skill trees you would always encounter huge varieties of play styles. In WoW I was a Feral Druid, leaning toward tanking, but all over the world there were caster Druids, healing Druids, dps druids, druids that focused on mobility for PvP, or those that focused on crowd control. There were dozens of good options for how to play that one class and all of them were played.

We're all the same for balance reasons. Very simple. So so simple.

Perfect balance is an impossible goal. Even by taking away most choices it's still impossible to obtain. Even the most hardcore of esport games can't achieve perfect balance. So since balance is impossible I would prefer imbalance that's filled with fun choices to imbalance that is nothing but rigid uniformity.

Perfect balance is impossible, all that is needed for balance in an MMO is a reasonable margin

[AskaRay]

this is still your choice, choices implie consequences. the illusion is to believe that all your choices are the right one, and all your choices will be met with approval, but then do you need the approval of anyone when you make a choice? The difficulty is to live with the consequences which most cant too hard you know

As for the rest, you can play different ways without it being it that wrong, not optimal but not wrong, just people believe that only one way is viable and that is when all of us from individual becomes robot. I dont agree with it..but nobody has to agree with me either, that is my choice, right ?

I don't know, Ice Mages are essentially playing their class wrong.

I...really like not having the illusion of choice. The game could be harder in different areas instead. Better, cleverer bosses. More exploration. More environment traps...stuff like that.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

this is still your choice, choices implie consequences. the illusion is to believe that all your choices are the right one, and all your choices will be met with approval, but then do you need the approval of anyone when you make a choice? The difficulty is to live with the consequences which most cant too hard you know

As for the rest, you can play different ways without it being it that wrong, not optimal but not wrong, just people believe that only one way is viable and that is when all of us from individual becomes robot. I dont agree with it..but nobody has to agree with me either, that is my choice, right ?

What you're referring to is a Dilemma or Morton's Fork. A Dilemma or Morton's Fork would be a choice between two equal/undesirable choices. Regardless of the form, the choices have the same weight. The form of illusion of choice here is Hobson's Choice or in line with "Something or nothing". Which I will refer back to the cheese analogy: There are 100 kinds of cheese you can choose from, but the 7 others only like one

The moment you are engaged in group content, you're forced into Hobson's Choice. Be it online or offline. If you have an objective, like clearing content in FF14, you'll have to comply to Hobson's Choice. It's in line with "something or nothing" as: If you don't comply with the group's choice, you get nothing. If you do, you get something.