Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[autumn]

...The BLM might not be a good player, but maybe they are trying their best, you can't tell the extent of someone's learning ability and adaptability just from one encounter. What I see here is generalization and acting in bad faith, especially that the white mage chimed in that the BLM did in fact start using Enochian...

I think this, at least in my opinion, is one of the most important comments in this thread.

We have literally no idea who is on the other side of the screen at the other end and a little tolerance can go a long way. Furthermore it's duty finder, it's going to be random with a selection of hundreds of potential players at any one time. Both 60 roulettes can be done with pre-made parties (friends, free company members or party finder, take your pick as there's options for going fast and with skilled players). Just last night I was paired with a ninja who halfway through the dungeon made a really snarky comment about the speed of the run due to the gear of the monk who it was clear had only just reached 60 and was trying to gain some higher ilvl gear doing the dungeon (we're in fractal). Sure, the run was slower than with 4 highly geared players, but calling her out like that is pretty much going to be taken in a bad way no matter what and was totally not needed, as for her skill I couldn't comment as I was concentrating on tanking but we made it through with no deaths or issues, even with big pulls. No wonder people get defensive as the majority of the time advice I see handed out during runs is made out like a personal attack or designed specifically to embarrass the player (even if the accuser/teacher denies trying to instigate it). It's a shame because for the most part the community here is really friendly.

I know it comes down to attitude here though and in terms of the OP, from what's been presented I don't think either party involved are totally innocent. I know I would have read his initial comment in the pic as inflammatory, but I also have no idea what's been said in chat prior to this moment so in this case I'd not like to judge on this specific instance.

[Hayward]

I wish NA and EU had the JP mentality for DF. Give it your maximum, no matter what. (Unless good reasons)

Speaking on behalf of North Americans who do put in an honest effort, I kindly invite you to sit down with that nonsense. I've about had it with folks like you slagging off North Americans to gain favor with Japanese players. It's disgusting.

[FeliAiko]

The healer in the party posted that a couple times in this thread. There's one on the front page. It wasn't in the actual screen shot.

Okay, so apparently they used it after he mentioned it. In other words had he not mentioned it, chances are they would've not used it at all... but I'm digressing here somewhat.

You mentioned that he wanted to continue the argument, when that's incorrect. What you can see happening is that the Tank continued to pick a fight with him ("come at me stupid bard"), leading to OP's comment on why is he being considered retarded for simply asking a legitimate question.

Which is not even her fault.

Yet did nothing to stop the Tank from continuing to pick a fight either. I bet they had no problem with the Tank throwing insults, but being called a bot? Asked why they're not using a key skill? The absolute nerve!

No, that's the response I would have given after the entire conversation. Look at the whole screen shot. He keeps going even after they go after the trash mobs. He stops the party a second time just to keep the argument alive. He got kicked because he wouldn't let it go even after she adjusted her play style.

Nice how you're able to read a whole lot from that while accusing others of making assumptions when it doesn't suit your narrative.

Tank tries to pick a fight, the healer attempts to defuse the situation (I mistakenly attributed that to the BLM, who was instead hiding behind the Tank rather than answering the question), except the Tank continues the argument. OP asks the Tank why does asking a legit question warrant being insulted. BLM finally responds with what is a "low standard" mentality comment, and then the OP is kicked.

What's funny about all this, is how the Tank in the midst of his baseless white knight mode showed that he KNOWS the importance of Enochian ("[it] allows the use of blizzard 4 and fire 4 right?") yet still wanted to berate the OP for questioning why the BLM wasn't using said skill.

[Arrius]

People will endure bad DPS because it isn't worth the emotional stress and needless debates it can cause.
Because once you are in a argument with them, everyone in the party will suffer from it and progress comes to a standstill.

Hence most of us will swallow down their comment in order to get the dungeon done, as finishing it 7 or so minutes later is better than getting stuck with people leaving.

[Reilyn]

Speaking on behalf of North Americans who do put in an honest effort, I kindly invite you to sit down with that nonsense. I've about had it with folks like you slagging off North Americans to gain favor with Japanese players. It's disgusting.

Speak for yourself.

I'm NA. I put in effort. I've downed a4s. I don't care to curry favor with players halfway around the world that don't even know me, and it's likely neither does that person you're responding to. I want much of this community to stop putting in pisspoor amounts of effort, refuse to fix it, or even blame the game as well.

What's disgusting is you putting your NA pride before making the the community better just because someone points out an example to possibly emulate, and trying to speak for all of us. Why don't you keep quiet?

[Whiteroom]

Speaking on behalf of North Americans who do put in an honest effort, I kindly invite you to sit down with that nonsense. I've about had it with folks like you slagging off North Americans to gain favor with Japanese players. It's disgusting.

The results they get show that its true though. The lazy attitude and defense of it on NA data center disgust me. The outrage people recive on these forums for suggesting people put forth even a little effort to support the team they are a part of also disgusts me.

[Granyala]

I wish NA and EU had the JP mentality for DF. Give it your maximum, no matter what. (Unless good reasons)

This is how I play it. Either I go in and give it 100% or I don't go in. Doesn't matter whether it's a low level dungeon or not. (EU btw)
Only exception are guild funruns which are supposed to be relaxed.

The Reason for slacker DPS is that there is no metering system.
Tank fails: BLATANTLY obvious, serious fail = wipe. (and a flamefest to boot b/c tank has to be purrrfect on try 1)
Healer fails: Obvious most of the time, because people die. (insert flamefest)
DPS fails: Barely noticeable... not noticeable at all on encounters w/o enrage mechanic.

What we need is an obvious recount to put some pressure on DPS, buut SE doesn't want that.

[autumn]

This is how I play it. Either I go in and give it 100% or I don't go in.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of this (personally I always try my hardest), what happens if you think you're giving 100%, like genuinely you believe you're doing your absolute best at your job, but you've misunderstood or have been told something wrong so others see you at far less and assume you're being lazy?

This comes down to attitude of course though, in an ideal world a simple exchange of words can go a long way if it's kept civil. If someone more knowledgeable then says "hey, I noticed this and I know a few tricks that could improve your dps, have you tried X, Y, Z?" it'd be nice if the person in question then replies and a conversation ensues and knowledge is imparted. But what we have been shown in the image is "hello?" "is anyone there?" "is this a bot?" which isn't exactly a nice way to engage someone in a lesson. After that they (both the tank and black mage) are incredibly defensive, excessively so but I can see why. And I'm betting many people have witnessed this kind of exchange or been part of it before. Runs already aren't the most sociable with often a "hi" at the start and if you're lucky a "gg" or "thanks everyone" at the end. Again we don't know exactly what else was said prior to this though.

And you're spot on about dps not having a very visible way to meter their skill in game compared with a tank or healer other than if the run seems to be going faster than usual. It is annoying playing dps and having no real way to tell if you're up there with the best or floating around average, I know I could get a lot more out of my job dps wise to be at the point some of the best in my fc are at.

[Velhart]

Takes 50 pages to figure out that some people are good, some are bad and don't want to put the effort. It isn't a cultural thing. It is just human. There is no work around for it. All you can do if you are put in a bad group is just leave. If you really despise playing with a bad player, then put the effort to get good players to join your roulette.

It is that simple.

[Reisui]

Sorry to have offended people, it's just a fact tho.
I'll reform:
I find it a shame that the lazy people from NA and EU get defend for bad play.

I just know, I'll give myself 100% to show the respect for other people. And not only for those other people, but also for myself, because then I know I do not only care about myself, but I'm doing the best for the team I'm with, be it know or unknown players. I threat them the same.

Do I see someone slaking, not using skills, having troubles, I will give advice. It's true, sometimes my advice might be direct. But it's done with the best intention.
Also, I play on PS4, I don't use a keyboard to type, so typing long texts isn't so easy for me. But I don't think it's a reason to shut up.

People should just accept critic and advice be it ingame or IRL.