Hardcore World

[PArcher]

Please, this has nothing to do with savage. People cried for nerfs even for Steps of Faith or Pharos Sirius.

The op basically wants A3S abd A4S difficulty in the open world. Tons of people quit because that is too hard for them.

Why would this be a good idea to implement again?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

The op basically wants A3S abd A4S difficulty in the open world. Tons of people quit because that is too hard for them.

Why would this be a good idea to implement again?

Actually they are different kinds of difficulty. So Alexander Savage has really nothing to do with this. Open Content Hardness is a whole nother and different beast altogether. You won't have super strats in an Open World since there is no invisible walls, it would have to be designed completely different.

Alexander difficulty comes from its Strats and DPS checks.

Instanced, and Open Content have always been different.


Open World Dungeons, Contested, have monsters that are tough, and as HARD as bosses, but do not have the massive health pools either. It also requires your party to know the environment as if not to pull more then they should. You also have zones with "MANY" nameds, all of them have simple but complex strategies and are hard to kill on their own. However, if your too slow, the monsters around the name repop and if you die - unlike Savage, you don't start at the boss, you start at the beginning of the zone and have to go all the way down again. You also have to fight other groups for nameds. So - no, its nothing like Savage.

If we get Open World - or more open world content. It also allows the developers to design classes that have this little thing called "Crowd Control" *gasp* yeah I know, crazy right?

FFXIV/WoW/Other MMOs have literally no Crowd Control anymore.

Not to say your wrong in it being difficult. However, I "hate" Savage myself. I don't like that kind of content or difficulty. However, I LOVE the difficulty of Open World content because of the thrill, competition, and fighting for content.

It is NOT the same. That is the point i'm making.

[m3eansean]

So...basically you guys want to play Final Fantasy 11 with a 14 re-skin?

Seriously, players less and less want "hardcore" mechanics like punishment upon death, and tedious overworld travel through dangerous areas.

"Hardcore" MMO's in the past years have been huge flops and the money is clear, players don't want them anymore. SE would not spend this time, almost re-designing everything in a game and dedicating it to it's own server, just so a small majority can enjoy it.

They have a history of removing difficult, tedious content from the game. See: Steps of Faith, Bees from original Amdapor, the fact that Savage difficulty is being reduced in the new raid (because not enough people were playing it).

[Nektulos-Tuor]

So...basically you guys want to play Final Fantasy 11 with a 14 re-skin?

Seriously, players less and less want "hardcore" mechanics like punishment upon death, and tedious overworld travel through dangerous areas.

"Hardcore" MMO's in the past years have been huge flops and the money is clear, players don't want them anymore. SE would not spend this time, almost re-designing everything in a game and dedicating it to it's own server, just so a small majority can enjoy it.

They have a history of removing difficult, tedious content from the game. See: Steps of Faith, Bees from original Amdapor, the fact that Savage difficulty is being reduced in the new raid (because not enough people were playing it).

Which MMOs like that have been FLOPS?

Also, this is "Open World" content, those examples are all instances. Instanced Content and Open World Content are COMPLETELY different. Its Night and Day. Water and Lava. Girl and Boy!

[Reilyn]

Which MMOs like that have been FLOPS?

Wildstar.

10char

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Wildstar.

10char

Wildstar has no open world content. Reroll your thoughts.

Thats like saying League of Legends, its a different game.

[Moomba33]

I doubt there are enough people who would be interested for this to be worthwhile to be honest.

Even some who would be interested probably wouldn't join in because they wouldn't want to start over on a new character or lose housing, FC friends, ect with a server transfer.

[Kurogaea]

Wildstar.

10char

Wildstar didn't do so well at first since i had a bunch of broken systems in the game at first (not relating to open world), though when the game went into most of its final stages the problems were all fixed and the game is extremely stable and fun. Only problem is the playerbase was small, mostly due to the upcoming mmos like ff14 and black desert. Thats why the game "flopped" as you said. There is openworld pvp but thats optional. If a player is that much of a baby to be worrying about what others are doing and quit then they shouldn't even be playing online games, period. I recommend giving wildstar a try.

[cyborgmermaid]

"Hardcore" MMO's in the past years have been huge flops and the money is clear, players don't want them anymore.

TIL every MMO before World of Warcraft was a flop. Huh.

[Enkidoh]

So...basically you guys want to play Final Fantasy 11 with a 14 re-skin?

Seriously, players less and less want "hardcore" mechanics like punishment upon death, and tedious overworld travel through dangerous areas.

"Hardcore" MMO's in the past years have been huge flops and the money is clear, players don't want them anymore. SE would not spend this time, almost re-designing everything in a game and dedicating it to it's own server, just so a small majority can enjoy it.

They have a history of removing difficult, tedious content from the game. See: Steps of Faith, Bees from original Amdapor, the fact that Savage difficulty is being reduced in the new raid (because not enough people were playing it).

^This basically sums up this thread. Really, the loudest complaints about the difficulty of this game always come from stubborn hardcore FFXI fans upset that this game is not a HD FFXI and that they are now not top dog but just little fish in a very big and crowded pond (and I say that as a long term FFXI fan who has played FFXI for over 10 years - I still love FFXI but I have never been blinded to it's many faults and shortcomings either). This game will never be like FFXI, a game that was based on Everquest, a much earlier generation of gaming. FFXIV is an example of modern game design, the WoW model of MMOs, which yes, means a more casual, newbie friendly environment.

'Open world' content worked in FFXI because it's very design revolved around it. It's battle system was designed so that only you could attack a mob and no one else could unless you were in a party with them, leading to sordid affairs like kill stealing and bots claiming NMs as soon as they spawned and no one else was legitimately able to get a look in. That and we've already seen what happens when a Hunt NM or a high end FATE spawns in FFXIV, it becomes an absolute zerg fest because like all good modern MMOs, you are free to attack any mob even if someone else is fighting it - any attempt to expand that would just be more of the same, and the complaints would begin again. And as mentioned above, a hardcore server would just be wasted labour and development time to change the very structure and design of the game to keep a handful of hardcore players happy, that's just being realistic.

Considering the amount of players/subscribers that FFXI had at it's height circa 2005 never broke the 400000 subscribers mark, and yet FFXIV ARR broke that before it was even launched, I think it's pretty telling to SE where the money lies. And it's not in an older style of gameplay like FFXI.

If you want to play a FFXI style MMO, play FFXI! Because FFXIV will never be like FFXI, it is designed with new, casual, laid-back players in mind. Accept that and enjoy the game, or don't and leave. It's your subscription, your choice.