PSA: Divine Seal and Synastry affect your HoT spells

[Neela]

People don't, and there's a number of posters around these forums that are quick to say 'the game doesn't have enough teaching tools' (...) Hell, there's posters in this very healing forum that have a tendency to spread misinformation because they learned to talk on the forums before they read or even tried it themself(...)

thats the problem in most of the mmo-communities... people talk about stuff they "read" around the corner without even trying it on their own - different ways or people who try to craft their own theory are often called "noobs" in here. its sad that every 2nd point in a discussion is "because reddit said it" or "i saw a youtube video" - hell yeah THOSE you are tryining to copy to "be a pro" have tried their strats on THEIR OWN somehow and somewhere in the past as well – i think there is nothing wrong if people ask or look for inspiration but i hate those who try to force people playing in a black or white playstyle - without even thinking of endless shades of grey...

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

snip

If this is a direct continuation of the whole medica II on/before pull thing, yes, it is a pretty poor choice to do so. But before I continue on this, how about you give us a reason or reasons why it is actually useful and/or efficient at all to do so

[Neela]

ill already said why we gonna do this if we run as fc grp – i came a cross from smn to sch playing whm now as main, so im used to play aggressiv even as healer. jumping in as "battlemage" the same second the fight begins is just joyful - doesnt matter if trash mob or dng boss (not talking about endcontent raids here). there is nothing more boring than just "wait and analyse" the pullmoment... i dont say its common nor that i want u to convince doing it the same way but it worked for me/us. after setting protes, stoneskin, devine seal, med2, reg, asyl and cleric i jump directly to the tanks side spaming a swiftcasted aero lll (mostlikely on the leadmonster), presence of mind buffed holy, assize followed by ongoing holy/stone spam. though while im standing next to the tank the second he pulled the mob/boss it rly doesnt matter who got the starting aggro. but well just stay out of the danger zone judging me from your safespot - its okay for me at least im not another community lemming :3

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Well, I do feel like convincing you as it's bad practice to do anything unnecessary during the pull.

ill already said why we gonna do this if we run as fc grp – i came a cross from smn to sch playing whm now as main, so im used to play aggressiv even as healer. jumping in as "battlemage" the same second the fight begins is just joyful - doesnt matter if trash mob or dng boss (not talking about endcontent raids here). there is nothing more boring than just "wait and analyse" the pullmoment...

If you're as "aggressive" as you say, it's not uncommon for you to be close to being MP drained after a pull. It takes up to 50 seconds to go from 0 mp to full when you are out of combat (6%/3 seconds). When you are in combat, it takes three times longer (2%/3 seconds). Unless the tank is going to wait for you to recover MP between pulls, performing actions or having a HoT on the tank during a pull will put you on the enmity list. This translates into missing out on 4% MP every 3 seconds and that's the MP you have less to spend on the next pull or boss.

Additionally, you're generating unnecessary enmity for performing an action that's not very helpful nor efficient. Having Medica II up on 4 players - assuming everyone gets hit by it and there are no pets - generates 100 potency worth of enmity every 3 seconds (not including the front loaded 200 potency on each party member). A single tomahawk, Unmend or shield lob is worth 360 potency worth of enmity. Depending on the length of the pull, this would result in either lobbing another ranged attack at each target every 12 seconds or stutter every here and there to AoE them. Either way, it results in unnecessary resource loss for the tank. There's also the thing that tanks can't lob more than 1 target at a time, which is a GCD of 2,5s and has to tag every mob within the time frame before the HoT ticks for effect. The tank could just face pull them and AoE as they approach him/her. Depending on how dense the group formation is and the timing of the HoT tick, the tank could miss one or two. Ergo: Any form of patchwork to work around any HoTs on the tank requires more resources than necessary. Not just on the tank, but the healer as well (see above)

So that was the "not helpful" side of it, so on with efficiency:
Assume perfect world scenario and the tank manages to grab everything without pointless resource waste and makes a perfect clean pull. Let's also assume you can somehow manage to make perfect use of the Medica II HoT and not a single tick is wasted. This would result into a 700 potency healing on the tank at the cost of 1502 MP (at level 60). So let's look at alternatives. You don't apply any HoT on the tank and enjoy the increased out of combat MP regeneration and you cast a Cure II during/at the end of the pull for 650 potency and it costs 884 MP. Not only are you missing out on 4% mp every 3 seconds if you apply a Medica II before hand, you're also spending 618 MP more compared to Cure II. So back to the helpful bit; the tank doesn't have to be as vigilant with the HoT on them compared to the Cure II.

If you don't feel like being a "community lemming", your choice. But if you decide to throw out your opinion out there, you're the same as those who write things on reddit and showcase on youtube as you described. What you're doing is called hypocrisy.

[PirateCat]

after setting protes, stoneskin, devine seal, med2, reg, asyl and cleric i jump directly to the tanks side...

My opener is pretty much the same as this, but without the Med2 and waiting until at least one or two AOE hategrabs have happened. Divine Seal Regen and Asylum buy me at least several GCDs already, and Holy stun buys even more time, before I have to drop back to heal for a bit again (typically: Tetra and Cure/CureII till topped off, refresh Regen, and keep going to town.) So I don't really feel a need to add Med2 to that.

The argument against Med 2 in the opener is fairly straightforward. It generates threat more quickly than other HOTs because it's ticking on everyone, and if you have a tank who isn't prepared for it, it's really easy to rip hate. If you run things with a regular group where this isn't a problem, more power to you, but there's a good reason why it isn't a recommended practice with random people.

[tjw]

Medica II is an off and on thing for me as an opener. If I know party damage will be coming or mobs are AoE spammy (e.g. the mobs after first boss Fractal or second set of mobs in Neverreap), I will use Medica II but ONLY after the tank has established hate. My opener before going into DPS mode is Divine Seal -> Cure -> Medica II -> Regen -> Asylum -> Cleric for those cases. Depending on the level of the pull, the Cure could become a Cure II. That single Cure/Cure II still maintains the tank's HP without pulling hate in most cases.

I was shocked by this as well when I was testing it out at my house after getting it the other day.

And yet, Cleric stance DOES effect it... ಠ_ಠ

Most ability type heals are scaled off your MND and nothing else. The exceptions to that rule are Benediction and Essential Dignity, the first which is just a straight 100% heal of your target's HP pool, and the second which adds a second component (also scaled off MND, mind you) based on the missing % of your target's maximum HP. Cleric Stance switches your INT and MND values, hence why Cleric Stance is the sole factor affecting ability heals. It's also the reason why ability heals bypass Infirmity, Static Condensation, Disease conditions; they're not taking into the formula for ability heals.

Besides, Cleric Stance is the reason why one ability heal shines. Assize; one of the best skills in the WHM arsenal.

[Neela]

(...)

If you don't feel like being a "community lemming", your choice. But if you decide to throw out your opinion out there, you're the same as those who write things on reddit and showcase on youtube as you described. What you're doing is called hypocrisy.

Its funny that you talk about "hypocrisy" – because i said from the beginning, that i dont want to convince people that im right nor that its the only-must-do-it-that-way to play. I'll try to inspire people for shades of grey and tell them that it works for me/us - nothing more, nothing less. But i guess its senseless to discuss this anymore with people who arent open minded at all. Your behavior is not about getting an idea if it may be a way to improve dmg but to convince me that im totally wrong in a harsh way. At least PirateCat is one of the less who got a neutral opinion about my words. Because i never meant to start a troll discussion, let's stop this dialoge right here ^^

The argument against Med 2 in the opener is fairly straightforward. It generates threat more quickly than other HOTs because it's ticking on everyone, and if you have a tank who isn't prepared for it, it's really easy to rip hate. If you run things with a regular group where this isn't a problem, more power to you, but there's a good reason why it isn't a recommended practice with random people.

Yeah im totally aware of the breakingpoint in this discussion that's why i said "it works for us with an intern grp" more than once. If your tank is prepared, it can be useful - nothing more than that was my talk about. im glad that at least someone got it the right way now - thx Pirate :3

[F_Maximillian]

I find Medica II to be a good buffer to DPS with tanks that would normally be too squishy to consider it. Usually the undergeared and newer ones that seem to know what they're doing but just don't have the gear to handle the pulls that they're making. I do somewhat often rip aggro off at least one or two mobs by stacking DS Regen on the tank and using Medica II but not only does the HoT give them that extra bit they need to live enough for me to toss out a couple Holy, but if I do pull aggro I'm within range for the tank to pull back plus I have the Medica II ticks healing at least half of the damage done and if Asylum is up that usually covers the other half. It's situational though but to say never use Medica II as a tank regen is a bit limiting considering the benefits if used properly. However, using it pre-pull doesn't give the tank enough time to neatly organize things. I wait until the mob has been gathered and the tank has had time to get a hit or three in before I do so.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Snip

If you truely had no intention to convince anyone, you wouldn't had shared it in the first place. I am all open for potential improvements and I have elaborated why the whole medica II issue is a poor choice to do in more than one way; something you have failed to elaborate otherwise. If you had no intention to defend your whole idea either, why even bother sharing it in the first place?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Additionally:

thats the problem in most of the mmo-communities... people talk about stuff they "read" around the corner without even trying it on their own

You're doing the exact same with your whole medica II standpoint. People are "reading" what you are writing. Thus the hypocrisy. But those on reddit and youtube at least elaborate with reasonable logic