Is "Traditional" a cop out?

[Evenstar]

I'm willing to bet that the game was a flop because it was unfinished. Had Tanaka actually had an extra year or maybe just another 6 to 8 months before releasing the game, I doubt it would be anywhere near the state it was at launch.

No doubt. It was released way too early and we can only guess why that happened. I still believe it is possible to fix the game and get back some of the players. Especially the ones that play(ed) FFXI. The ones coming and going from/to WoW are players that will never stick around for too long anyway. They would have lost them sooner or later anyway. It is the old FF fanbase and old/current FFXI players they have to try to get/keep. That combined with some PS3 players when the PS3 version is released might deliver just enough to keep things rolling and profitable for Square Enix.

This whole earthquake disaster couldn't come at a worse time for Square Enix as a company. Not that there is ever a good time for such a disaster, but I hope you guys understand what I am trying to say. Don't get me wrong, I am not whining nor mad or sad that the servers are offline. I was suprised they stayed up as long as they did in the first place and I totally support their decision.

[napalmninja]

True... but was it a fail because it was different.. or did it fail because it was grossly unfinished? How many ideas from early on in the "Tanaka era" would have been better received had the game been finished with little to no lag, or bugs... and a plethora of content? Its like someone giving a presentation in a dirty suit, with wrinkled graphs.... smudged papers and an overall bad smell...
The ideas weren't necessarily bad but no one gave them any consideration because the packaging was so rough

I think the fact it was unfinished really played a big role in its initial failure. Even if they had finished it with a lot of content and bug free, I think it still would have failed.

The problem is the different ideas and methods FFXIV had. Things like the armory system and levequests and others sound great on paper, but they don't look so good when you actually play them.

I think that one major issue that's keeping the game back now, and would keep the game back even if it was finished, is the lack of class uniqueness.

The armory system sounds neat on paper, but it holds back the classes from being different. If any class can use any skill why should I play PUG over LNC or ARC. Eventually it would reach the point where someone figured out an "alpha class" and suddenly everyone is going to be that class mixture.

And that is why Yoshi-P wants to look and past FFs extensively, because each character and job had a good amount of individuality.

[darkstarpoet1]

True... but was it a fail because it was different.. or did it fail because it was grossly unfinished? How many ideas from early on in the "Tanaka era" would have been better received had the game been finished with little to no lag, or bugs... and a plethora of content? Its like someone giving a presentation in a dirty suit, with wrinkled graphs.... smudged papers and an overall bad smell...
The ideas weren't necessarily bad but no one gave them any consideration because the packaging was so rough

to me this game was the equal to going out and getting a brand new white suit then taking it outside and throw it in the mud. sure it is brand new, but you feel dirty wearing it because it is not in great condition. yes, you can take the suit home and clean it up and it will be pretty again, but who wants to buy a dirty suit knowing you can "fix it" in the future. i believe most of the complaints is due to the game being released in less than finished condition. for this reason there are alot of people that are upset they left their old finished games to come here so want elements from the implemented.

this game is the same as the suit in the event that they have a huge future, but it is hard to look past all the dirt on it now.

[Evenstar]

Those just seem like common sense though, regardless if you're the company that made FFXI or not... those seem like things even a new MMO maker would want to include
A delivery system for items and messages in game just makes sense to everyone... How possible is it that those things were meant to be put in, but just got lost in the severe deadline and time constraint?

I honestly can't find any other reason why it was not in the release. I really can't. I couldn't agree more with you, thats for sure.

Then again, Square Enix is not stupid (at least I assume they are not .... being a huge game developer). I just do not get who made the decision to release the game and who really expected their players to accept the game as it was, while there were such huge basic things still mising.

I really do not think it is too hard to write a code to add at least a /sea function ....

[darkstarpoet1]

I think the fact it was unfinished really played a big role in its initial failure. Even if they had finished it with a lot of content and bug free, I think it still would have failed.

The problem is the different ideas and methods FFXIV had. Things like the armory system and levequests and others sound great on paper, but they don't look so good when you actually play them.

I think that one major issue that's keeping the game back now, and would keep the game back even if it was finished, is the lack of class uniqueness.

The armory system sounds neat on paper, but it holds back the classes from being different. If any class can use any skill why should I play PUG over LNC or ARC. Eventually it would reach the point where someone figured out an "alpha class" and suddenly everyone is going to be that class mixture.

And that is why Yoshi-P wants to look and past FFs extensively, because each character and job had a good amount of individuality.

remove the armory system and lose alot of people that got the game for this one specific thing. i know alot of high level people in multiple classes that would leave just by removing this. i got the game to be able to make my character what i want not be restricted by a job i am expected to play and i know alot of people that feel this way.

[Vesper]

The original launch of FFXIV imo failed because of two reasons.

1) It was unfinished, a blind, dumb, deaf mute could come to this conclusion. I love the game, but it was rushed out the door.
2) Some things in the game seem to have been made different, not because its a better system than other mmo's, but just because it would be different. That was a mistake, Yoshi-P even dropped a comment on it.

I have faith that come PS3 launch this game is going to be what most of us hope for.

[napalmninja]

remove the armory system and lose alot of people that got the game for this one specific thing. i know alot of high level people in multiple classes that would leave just by removing this. i got the game to be able to make my character what i want not be restricted by a job i am expected to play and i know alot of people that feel this way.

I don't mean they should remove the system all together they just need to fix it is all. Maybe make the penalties for using another classes skill more severe or make more class specific skills or even bonuses to using your own classes skill.

This way there's some incentive to play as different classes but you still have the capability to mix and match skills if you like.

EDIT: Better skill animations would make classes feel more unique also.

[Evenstar]

I don't mean they should remove the system all together they just need to fix it is all. Maybe make the penalties for using another classes skill more severe or make more class specific skills or even bonuses to using your own classes skill.

This way there's some incentive to play as different classes but you still have the capability to mix and match skills if you like.

EDIT: Also better skill animations would make classes feel more unique also.

Indeed, something as simple as better/unique skill animations would make a hell of a difference already.

They should polish the armory system. They should be able to change it in such a way that you still can mix and match, but have an unique (main) class anyway. Right now it is like having a subjob in FFXI that is at the same level as your main, which totally kills the uniqueness of any class. A Black Mage that can cast Cure V ....

[darkstarpoet1]

all that needs to be done is post cap abilities would be considered advanced abilities and only used by that class and the abilities received from guild marks would be class specific. that would allow cross classing of base abilities and specific advanced abilities that would allow end game people to need people from each class, but allow people that want to go farm blah blah part of this mob to do so.

[Rydin]

I think that one major issue that's keeping the game back now, and would keep the game back even if it was finished, is the lack of class uniqueness.

Had they come out and said "Yes, the main classes are beige and bland because we plan to have job specialization from each of them, so the main bland classes become obsolete anyway" would people have still complained?