Is "Traditional" a cop out?

[napalmninja]

...I'm going to assume you're talking about actual game content, as most people will agree that an active combat system, the armory system, and things like insta teleports are pretty great.

If you actually mean gameplay... Well, like I said, I'm pretty sure most people will disagree with that point.

I respectfully disagree with you.

A combat system where you spam button one and sometimes 2 is hardly active. insta teleport is nice, except anima doesn't recharge fast enough to consistently use it as a form of travel. And the armory system may seem nice, but it needs some serious tweaks.

I agree with Wolfie if these things were great, then Tanaka would still be in charge and we wouldn't be under going massive reconstruction.

[Seikninkuru]

To the OP, you're obviously wrong because you are either the most enlightened individual in the gaming world(FFXI player), or you're simply a retard for not liking FFXI(And thus, you must play WoW).

Didn't you know there aren't any other types of gamers out there? So not, it has to be like X game, nothing new or different. Just reskin and retitle. /rollseyes

OP your post is well thought out, but I feel it falls on deaf ears in this "community".

[Galamantyl]

VI was cool... we loved Blitz and who didn't fall in love with the auto-crossbow
And as good as VI was (Damn near perfect)
VII was completely different... and WE LOVED it
And VIII was even more of a deviation from the norm
X Didn't even have levels
XII didn't have random battles

hahaha. I find it hillarious that you intentionally left out Final Fantasy I, II, III, and V - three of which are the only Final Fantasy titles worth anyone's time (unless they're a noob). Not to mention, Final Fantasy XI was based on Final Fantasy III's gameplay - so like many others: you don't know wtf you are talking about.

Keep in mind, I say this with the most utmost respect for your own capacity to take what I say and learn from it.

Anyway, moving onto something more fundamentally important: There's something wrong with your logic. Final Fantasy XI was a massively multiplayer game. You can't group it into the same genre of the other titles because it's completely different. You never had to communicate or cooperate with free-thinkers in a previous Final Fantasy title. You never had to create your own single personalized character for which you feel some personal attachment.

For that reason, you can't group it into the same genre. Fans of RPGs don't care about gameplay as much, because it's single-player, and likely the only reason they're playing the game is because of the "storyline" and "graphics". It's different for mmo players. Honestly, I don't care either way, because after Final Fantasy X, Square-Enix and the fanbase have already told me they want crappy games now.

[pepesylvia]

hahaha. I find it hillarious that you intentionally left out Final Fantasy I, II, III, and V - three of which are the only Final Fantasy titles worth anyone's time (unless they're a noob).

um.. what?

[Scobill]

I don't think there's anything wrong with SE borrowing from "traditional" Final Fantasy games. But I don't think it's lack of traditionalism is why the game is failing.

I don't think anyone except maybe Abrieal would argue that FFXIV was released too early and in an unfinished state. [It's a joke dude, don't flip out if/when you decide to take a break from playing house (Read: domestic disturbance) with Rolf and read this.]

But in my opinion, a main flaw in their design was their approach of originality. Originality is a fantastic thing and I applaud developers who aren't too afraid to explore new ideas. The problem is, SE seemed to think that originality for originality's sake was enough. Just because something is original doesn't make it a good idea. Are market wards with a half-assed search function (only recently added mind you) better than a fully functional AH? I certainly don't think so. There are plenty of examples of SE attempting to utilize original ideas in the game that just haven't panned out.

Borrowing ideas from successful MMOs doesn't necessarily mean you have to sacrifice originality. (God I'm using that word a lot!) Having a fully functional AH takes nothing away from FFXIV. Especially if used in tandem with the market wards. Having a clean neat PC UI that follows MMO traditional standards, there's nothing wrong with that. Again, I don't think most would argue that the UI is pretty fail. I actually play with my 360 controller for windows and the UI still seems clunky to me. I've mastered switching between the 3 rows of abilities I can equip but it's a pain in the ass. I only 'like' (Read: Tolerate) it because I've managed to memorize how many button presses it takes to get to any given ability on any given row. And I'll never try to use the mouse and keyboard with this interface. I've got enough to stress me out already.

I guess my point is, one of SE's major flaws in my opinion is that they're too afraid to borrow commonly accepted and mind you, successful concepts from other successful MMOs. I don't want a WoW carbon copy by any means and I'm all for FFXIV retaining it's own original ideas.

One prime example I can think of is from a previous thread I was viewing. Discussing the idea of adding tech trees that would allow us to transform our current classes (think of them as base classes) into advanced jobs. And with the basic idea of a tech tree people talked about sphere grids, materia and license boards in place of traditional tech trees. Don't fool yourself, all those forms of progression are nothing but unique takes on traditional ideas. That's what I think SE needs to focus on.

My point being, there's no harm in borrowing from traditional ideas as long as it's not a copy/paste situation. I would love to see the return of Paladins and Dark Knights, White and black mages, Dragoons and all the classic Final Fantasy classes. Does this mean they have to be exact copies of FFXI? Absolutely not. I loved Vana'diel and I loved the jobs I played in that world but Eorzea is not Vana'diel, nor is it Ivalice, Spira or Gaia. I'd love to see a new take on these traditional classes and an evolution of sorts.

So as long as it's done with care to the series and with care within the world they've created, I'm all for it.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Posting me two bits, then will read into thread.

I think two things that went against FF14 and still trying to salvage are:

The original design based around turn-based combat in an MMORPG, thus involving slower paced combat. Battle regiments were built around the original design and don't seem to fit well with the present design.

The interface missing common MMO concepts, such as being mouse friendly. Can be expounded upon request.

The problem now with tinkering with the system now is how to change the core of the game and still keep all the players' progress? And what amount of conversion of your past efforts will transfer to a revamped system?

Innovation of the JRPG is what I know Squaresoft for. And I still salute them for their more international approach at FF14, their ongoing efforts with the game, and their consideration for their nation during these times.

[AlexiaKidd]

The problem now with tinkering with the system now is how to change the core of the game and still keep all the players' progress? And what amount of conversion of your past efforts will transfer to a revamped system?

Innovation of the JRPG is what I know Squaresoft for. And I still salute them for their more international approach at FF14, their ongoing efforts with the game, and their consideration for their nation during these times.

I had been thinking about how thy would keep players progress if they made huge changes as Yoshi P. said that they would never do a wipe. I figured that it wouldn't actually be that hard in all honesty even if they ripped out the current classes and replaced with traditional ones.

They already have a system in place that knows every single bit of SP/EXP you have accumulated you can even see it on Lodestone so all they would have to do in this case is after the update when you log back in is give you a way to distribute your total SP/EXP. You could look at what the new classes are and decide what you want to drop your points into, though they would have to make it faster than what it currently is for the attribute system, I couldn't imagine dropping 100's of thousands of SP 1 by 1 into a class ^^

They would obviously also have to give you a chance to reset it in case you didn't like the new class maybe 3 attempts and this would obviously only be for current and existing players, new players would most likely not be given this option. So with this you might find you have enough SP to have 3 classes at R50 or maybe spread it out and have them all at R40.

Whatever they do there are going to be unhappy people, what SE need to figure out is what they have to do to please more people and get more people interested and coming back to the game.

[notebene]

I wouldn't consider myself a 'wow head', though I played the game for awhile, along with many other MMOs (as I like the genre). I'm still playing LotRO and recently got into Rift (which is also a lot of fun). I like Rift because to me, it's what it is and is 'that type' of MMO. I'm still playing LotRO because of the lore, and will follow that one until the very end, for better or worse

I've never played an FF game before, didn't play the last MMO incarnation of it. I saw this beta about 3 weeks before it launched, and while I was sad I couldn't be an altaholic (purely because of the pricing model), I was excited to see my one character could eventually learn to be 'everything', and the world itself was just a big sand box. To me, it most closely resembled UO, and that is why I decided to play it, because it's a sand box. There aren't trees and roles and sub-roles and dinner rolls (mmmm). It's all just a big wishy-washy sand box.

So I guess I came here because to me it was different, and I think the world is beautiful (though not quite as open as I like, seems like there are places where you are forced down little channels and can't just walk around), the character models are outstanding, crafting is detailed and fun and really interconnected (reminds me a bit of an old not-so-popular MMO called Horizons, which had a bit of an interconnected crafting system).

Not sure what that gets me for an opinion, but it makes me a little sad that quite a few people seem to 'not' want a sand box, but I will reserve judgement until I see the changes as they come and make decisions about how far away from a sand box it becomes and go from there.

[Stilla]

First off, more than half of the people who purchased FFXIV, did so because of the graphics. So much so that people went off and spent thousands of dollars to buy a new PC or hundreds of dollars to buy new hardware. So when describing what players want please think about the majority of the players who quit because the game lacked the ability to justify the extra cash required to purchase new hardware.

For example, having or not having jump means nothing to a player who spent thousand for a new PC.