How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

I would die happy if we got a lancer-based tank job. Unfortunately, I don't think the game is gonna do any more dual jobs off the base classes, so likely won't happen. :c

Also, why Skull Sunder? It's only 350 potency of enmity (not including buffs) whereas the normal rotation at 2.4s gcd (including HT+Dis but not including any other buffs or off-gcd skills) is ~348 potency per gcd. Was there some reason you ended up needing Skull Sunder there in testing? o:

[Ninjah2r]

quick question: is the relic better than the i205 thordan wep? if yes please explain kinda torn in between those

and I never get high dps in dungeons on mob pulls, because doing the RoT/DS combo rapes my tp, am I doing anything wrong? with high dps I mean like, 900-950 overall.

[Sekundessounet]

Look at the stats weight part of the first post. Basically, Thordan wep give you CRIT + DET, and Ronghomiant gives you DET + Skill Speed. You just don't want to lose all that CRIT. The relic is bad :/

On mob pulls usually I do my AoE skills like : Heavy Thrust --> Blood for Blood+Battle Litany --> Ring of Thorns --> Internal Release+blood of the dragon --> Doom Spike --> Power Surge --> Doom Spike --> Jump --> Doom Spike --> Spineshatterdive --> Doom Spike --> Geirskogul --> Doom Spike --> Dragonfire Dive.

Then, at the moment you use Invigorate, I just do single target DPS.

[Thendiel]

Little practical question :

If Power Surge and Jump are up, and Blood for blood at like 4 secondes of being up too, is it worth it to delay Jump after Blood for Blood to have a fully buffed Jump ? Or should I use Jump before Blood for Blood ?

Because usually I do Power Surge --> GCD --> Blood for Blood --> GCD --> Jump (to have Power Surge on CD asap).

BTW I'm currently doing 1475 DPS with food, party buff and HQ potion, is that good ?

This isn't a question that I've actually done any number-crunching for, but it's a good one. With the currently accepted opener, this dilemma should arise just before your second BFB becomes available. My instinctive answer is that you would actually want to use Jump at that point rather than waiting for BFB. My logic is as follows:

• Since Jump is on a 30-second cooldown, there is a high likelihood that a 5-8 second delay might result in your getting one less jump before the boss dies or reaches its next phase transition. An entire extra Jump is undoubtedly stronger than a 30% boost to one Jump.
• Jump is very closely aligned with Internal Release throughout the rotation. If I remember correctly, waiting those extra GCDs for that one BFB ends up desynchronizing Jump and Internal Release, meaning that you lose an increased crit chance on 50% of all Jump uses after that point.

As for your numbers, they are quite good, assuming that you are i209 with a Spear of the Heavens or i210 with a relic. I cannot speak to what counts as good/extraordinary DPS at i210 with a Brionac or Gordian Spear, though.

[Ninjah2r]

Look at the stats weight part of the first post. Basically, Thordan wep give you CRIT + DET, and Ronghomiant gives you DET + Skill Speed. You just don't want to lose all that CRIT. The relic is bad :/

On mob pulls usually I do my AoE skills like : Heavy Thrust --> Blood for Blood+Battle Litany --> Ring of Thorns --> Internal Release+blood of the dragon --> Doom Spike --> Power Surge --> Doom Spike --> Jump --> Doom Spike --> Spineshatterdive --> Doom Spike --> Geirskogul --> Doom Spike --> Dragonfire Dive.

Then, at the moment you use Invigorate, I just do single target DPS.

alright thankss

[JackFross]

I wouldn't necessarily call the anima "bad" outright. It definitely comes down to personal preference. The thing packs 102 skill speed - there's literally no way to drop that stat below ~640 without significant luck in Diadem (assuming you wish to maintain accuracy to use it in A4 Savage). In my minor tinkering (because I personally don't intend to get the relic before 3.25, since I wouldn't use it), the best set I could scrape together using it was only ~7 points of stat weight higher than my current set using the Thordan spear, including the +1 weapon damage.

It'll likely end up looking something like the DRK weapons. The i200 Deathbringer Awoken is approximately even with the i205 Thordan sword, due to an impressive stat spread on the former. In testing, my dps was nearly indistinguishable (did it through multiple Thordan clears using both swords in the same party). That is what I assume you'll encounter in practical tests comparing Rhongomiant to the Halberd of the Heavens. They'll end up parsing essentially equivalently in any practical setting, so it'll mostly come down to your own personal tastes regarding the Skill Speed threshold.


And to add on to the AoE response, something important to note is you need to adjust your AoE to the size of the group and the strength of your partner DPS in dungeon runs. Smaller pulls benefit quite a lot from using normal ST rotation (minus Phlebotomize) and 4 gsk per minute. It sustains far longer and ends up pumping out relatively equivalent dps. Even in larger pulls, this approach can be beneficial to utilize if your partner dps is NOT a summoner cresting 2.4k per pull. The Doom Spike spam works REALLY WELL if the pull lasts less time than it takes for your TP to bottom out (prime example: first pull after the second boss in Fractal Continuum, you can spike 2.5k-3k when the pull ends if you pop b4b and DS spam with HT to open).

In extended encounters, after your TP bottoms out, you'll be sorely lacking in AoE (especially if you use BotD>gsk during your aoe, like you should) due to simply spreading CT combos as your primary dps, so your overall for the encounter will drop off rapidly. Conversely, if you focus on ST rotation with BotD flowing, spreading CT while churning out 4 gsk/minute, you'll find your dps far more consistently over 1.2-1.4k even without B4B active for the pull.

[Ninjah2r]

@Jack,

alright ST without plheb and with 4 GK's a minute it is then, thankss D

[Sekundessounet]

This isn't a question that I've actually done any number-crunching for, but it's a good one. With the currently accepted opener, this dilemma should arise just before your second BFB becomes available. My instinctive answer is that you would actually want to use Jump at that point rather than waiting for BFB. My logic is as follows:

• Since Jump is on a 30-second cooldown, there is a high likelihood that a 5-8 second delay might result in your getting one less jump before the boss dies or reaches its next phase transition. An entire extra Jump is undoubtedly stronger than a 30% boost to one Jump.
• Jump is very closely aligned with Internal Release throughout the rotation. If I remember correctly, waiting those extra GCDs for that one BFB ends up desynchronizing Jump and Internal Release, meaning that you lose an increased crit chance on 50% of all Jump uses after that point.

As for your numbers, they are quite good, assuming that you are i209 with a Spear of the Heavens or i210 with a relic. I cannot speak to what counts as good/extraordinary DPS at i210 with a Brionac or Gordian Spear, though.

Hey ! Thank you ! I'm ilvl 208 with Antiquited Brionac at the moment, currently on Thordan. I understand for the Jump thing, I'll do like you said

[Erys]

Ello, guys. Looking for the most experienced players to sort me out.
My problem is, dervy's advanced opener is uncomfortable to me (as derp as this sounds) so I pull what I'd call a "i should be doing better" number everytime.
1300 on faust nm and up to 1400 in bosses in arboretum at i204. Still haven't got into AS because we are still organizing it. Here is my ""pityful"" variation.

BL-HT-Impuls-(B4B+IR)-Dis-(BotD+PS)-C-Jump-4-Geirskogul-Phleb-DFD-True-SSD-Vorp-(Leg+LS)-T4 and rotato.

Is it really that bad? I just don't want to be a hassle to my party and pull my weight XD

PS: facepalms with chairs are allowed, heavier objects are a no-no.

[dark494]

I wouldn't necessarily call the anima "bad" outright. It definitely comes down to personal preference. The thing packs 102 skill speed - there's literally no way to drop that stat below ~640 without significant luck in Diadem (assuming you wish to maintain accuracy to use it in A4 Savage). In my minor tinkering (because I personally don't intend to get the relic before 3.25, since I wouldn't use it), the best set I could scrape together using it was only ~7 points of stat weight higher than my current set using the Thordan spear, including the +1 weapon damage.

This is my current set for anima. It's technically ~4 str "worse" than the anima BiS, but that BiS has 709 SS, mine's 637, which ends up much better in the long run anyway. And it's only ~8 str worse than gordian BiS, and ~6 str better than Thordan BiS.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/S9N3