Hardcore is not a dirty word

[Bled]

You are the first person I have ever heard label FFXI hardcore, I personally found it pretty dang easy, and I played what most people seem to think was the class that needed all sorts of skill, Bard, and I was mithra too boot, as I said in another thread, I routinely played drunk and no one ever knew.

a hardcore game is one that is easy to play difficult to master, FFXI was easy to play and easy to master...how hard was it to log on and wait...
wait for airships, wait for nm spawns, wait for ferries, wait for your party to finally form, wait for everyone to get the the camp, wait for everyone to finally stop arguing over which mobs to kill (why we always argued over this I'll never know, we all knew we'd be killing some form of crustacean), Kill one or two mobs, and oh look some one has to log cause it's dinner or something, and it's back to waiting...finally get fed up with the glacial pace of leveling and go do something else...which usually meant faking a D/C so I didn't have to give some lame excuse.

that's not hardcore...that's boring

Stating that Final Fantasy 11 was not a hardcore game is much like stating Obama is not a liberal, you can pick out things that make him seam like a conservative yet he is in fact still a liberal.

are you new to the forums? cause popular belief here is FF11 was for hardcore gamers and FF14 is for casual.

[Pandastirfry]

Stating that Final Fantasy 11 was not a hardcore game is much like stating Obama is not a liberal, you can pick out things that make him seam like a conservative yet he is in fact still a liberal.

are you new to the forums? cause popular belief here is FF11 was for hardcore gamers and FF14 is for casual.

And it used to be popular opinion that disease was caused by evil spirits. what's your point?

FFXI was for hardcore gamers if by hard core you mean people like I used to be, no responsibilities and plenty of time (or really procrastinating on something I should have been doing, like my school work at the time, good golly I wonder what my GPA would have been if the scales had fallen from my eyes earlier) to sit around and stare at a screen hoping, oh hoping so hard, that you would be the ones to kill a particular HNM, that spawns once a week and you've had someone sitting there babysitting that spot the whole time, the strategy for which was soooo complex, Keep tank alive, beat on it till its HP reaches 0, just like every other MMO.

Like I said, it wasn't hardcore, sure it sucked the life from your bones and gave an illusion of depth, but in reality it was a tank and spank grind fest with time sinks in masquerading as content.

[Dragonlord]

And it used to be popular opinion that disease was caused by evil spirits. what's your point?

FFXI was for hardcore gamers if by hard core you mean people like I used to be, no responsibilities and plenty of time (or really procrastinating on something I should have been doing, like my school work at the time, good golly I wonder what my GPA would have been if the scales had fallen from my eyes earlier) to sit around and stare at a screen hoping, oh hoping so hard, that you would be the ones to kill a particular HNM, that spawns once a week and you've had someone sitting there babysitting that spot the whole time, the strategy for which was soooo complex, Keep tank alive, beat on it till its HP reaches 0, just like every other MMO.

Like I said, it wasn't hardcore, sure it sucked the life from your bones and gave an illusion of depth, but in reality it was a tank and spank grind fest with time sinks in masquerading as content.

Ohh really AV was a tank+spank right? Seems u forgot that SE had to release a video for people that spend alooooot of time, trying to analyze and discete a strategy to defeat him. Also what HNM poped every 7days? None i remember. I recall it being 24-72hours. That isnt really the point here though.

[Viridiana]

are you new to the forums? cause popular belief here is FF11 was for hardcore gamers and FF14 is for casual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Wait, what was your point?

[Bled]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Wait, what was your point?

fail wiki link lol

this post is soaked in irony

[Viridiana]

fail wiki link lol

this post is soaked in irony

Hmm? Just saying, everyone thinking something is hardcore doesn't automatically make it so.

Now, if you'd like to actually explain what was so hardcore about it, feel free; but saying "Everyone here believes FFXI was hardcore, so it is," is, well, a logical fallacy. That holds true regardless of whether or not XI was, in fact, hardcore.

[Bled]

Hmm? Just saying, everyone thinking something is hardcore doesn't automatically make it so.

Now, if you'd like to actually explain what was so hardcore about it, feel free; but saying "Everyone here believes FFXI was hardcore, so it is," is, well, a logical fallacy. That holds true regardless of whether or not XI was, in fact, hardcore.

here are just some of the features that made the game hardcore:

• Not for solo players.
• Hard to level.
• High learning curve.
• Ton of camping.
• Huge time investment needed.
• economy based on supply and demand which was then based on time invested into drop rates.

If you view those features as annoying and not "fun" then the games just not for you plain and simple. It dose not make it any less of a hardcore game just because you don't like those features.

And to the irony of your post you were combating popular belief with the most popular discredited definition site lol.

[Konachibi]

here are just some of the features that made the game hardcore:

• Not for solo players.
• Hard to level.
• High learning curve.
• Ton of camping.
• Huge time investment needed.
• economy based on supply and demand which was then based on time invested into drop rates.

If you view those features as annoying and not "fun" then the games just not for you plain and simple. It dose not make it any less of a hardcore game just because you don't like those features.

And to the irony of your post you were combating popular belief with the most popular discredited definition site lol.

I can agree with those first three points but.... ton of camping?

So like, a game is hardcore if you spend ages sitting around waiting for something to happen? That's like saying being in a queue for a theme park ride is hardcore.

Huge time investment needed, that's all decided by the player. An MMO doesn't NEED a lot of time wasted on it to offer rewards, it all depends on the player and their play-style. A person can hit max level and do end-game content without having to give up their day job to do it.

And the supply & demand thing isn't actually a good thing. Relying on item drop rates to be able to purchase equipment is what caused R.M.T to come into existance, and R.M.T allows players to 'buy their win'.

[Bled]

I can agree with those first three points but.... ton of camping?

So like, a game is hardcore if you spend ages sitting around waiting for something to happen? That's like saying being in a queue for a theme park ride is hardcore.

Huge time investment needed, that's all decided by the player. An MMO doesn't NEED a lot of time wasted on it to offer rewards, it all depends on the player and their play-style. A person can hit max level and do end-game content without having to give up their day job to do it.

And the supply & demand thing isn't actually a good thing. Relying on item drop rates to be able to purchase equipment is what caused R.M.T to come into existance, and R.M.T allows players to 'buy their win'.

Camping is preparing, the points between battle that include strategizing for the next battle... anything can sound bad if you define it incorrectly.

If you really want to use a theme park as an example then here you go:

Top Hill Dragster, longest wait for a roller coaster - Hardcore roller coaster enthusiasts, more complex, viewed as more of a thrill

Gemini, extremely short wait for ride - casual roller coaster, not as complex, a moderate thrill.

Like i said earlier i can play Hello Kitty Island Adventure hardcore, but the game its self is not hardcore.

Supply and demand is essential to any economy... RMT's are the problem not supply and demand..

[Viridiana]

here are just some of the features that made the game hardcore:

• Not for solo players.
• Hard to level.
• High learning curve.
• Ton of camping.
• Huge time investment needed.
• economy based on supply and demand which was then based on time invested into drop rates.

If you view those features as annoying and not "fun" then the games just not for you plain and simple. It dose not make it any less of a hardcore game just because you don't like those features.

And to the irony of your post you were combating popular belief with the most popular discredited definition site lol.

Ah, see, now we're getting somewhere!

Now, I'd personally disagree that the camping or the economy qualify as hardcore, but that's mostly because I don't consider waiting to be hardcore. The time investment thing, I could go either way. I personally always thought of hardcore as requiring skill more than time, but time investment is, at the very least, a major connotation, so whatever. As to the rest, I've really nothing to say about them, having never actually played XI.

And about the irony. . . well, touché, but let's see you define a word without an appeal to the majority or appeal to authority.