Please don't join endgame content with a job you dont know how to play

[Callback]

How is it physically possible to reach "endgame" without knowing a job considering the eternal suffering of torturous grind it takes to level?

[KyahAlmasy]

How is it physically possible to reach "endgame" without knowing a job considering the eternal suffering of torturous grind it takes to level?

A lot of people just FATE grind mindlessly, and pay no mind to the skills I assume. I've seen players completely unaware that they had spells or skills at all because they didn't even take a minute to look through their abilities, nevermind read what they do.

I just don't feel like it's asking much for a player to read their abilities before joining hardish content that requires some effort to accomplish. Otherwise it's a real pain for others to have to carry them.

[Malzian]

Your analogy isn't appropriate for this situation.

If you read a book on how a Guitar is supposed to be played, then even if you've never played one in the past, you know the basics like how to hold the guitar, you know that you're supposed to use a pick, etc etc. You don't read a book on a guitar, and try to hold it like a cello, and play the strings with a violin bow. You will never become familiar with playing a guitar if you didn't read the book well enough to know how it's held, or how the strings work - to play efficiently it would be the equivalent of an AST knowing that pairing Celestial Opposition with Luminferous Aether grants you more MP. Or that Lightspeed grants you instant stoneskins. Not something you'd learn from reading the skills like you would read from a guitar guide, like hey DONT USE A BOW on a guitar like you would on a violin, or don't try to stack your shields with another SCH or another Noct Ast.

If you just got finished reading a book on playing a guitar, you don't immediately jump into playing professionally in a band. Your example seems very contrived in order to suit your agenda in the conversation, which leads me to believe that you're only arguing with me here for argument's sake.

My analogy is actually very appropriate for this situation. It is -entirely- possible to read a whole book or even a series of book on how to play a guitar and still hold it 'the wrong way'. Now, if you mean holding it upside down and backwards, yeah, but that's a whole other issue. The fact is that there is a very specific way to hold a guitar which you can certainly read about, but it's likely that you (unless you're somehow a natural at it) aren't going to get correct right away. There's a nuance in how you hold the neck, in how you play the strings, all of which you can read about but none of which you will ever fully comprehend until you actually do it. (Oh, and in reference to 'playing a guitar with a bow': Violin bow on electric guitar | Frank Steffen Mueller)

And no, if you just learned to play you don't immediately get up and play in a band, but what you should do is find someone else who does know how to do it and have them help you through. The point still comes down to the fact that you don't learn to play by reading, you learn to play by playing. I'm not sitting here saying, "Don't read your skills." By all means, you should be reading them... but you can't expect everyone to suddenly just understand the proper way to play their job through that alone. Many people need to practice those concepts, they need to work with them and see them in action in order to understand when they're effective and when they're not. By saying to a whole group of people 'Unless you can read these skills and know how to play your job, don't bother' you're only serving to perpetuate the very problem you're complaining about.

Maybe it's a difference in ideology here, maybe it's partly because of what I do for a living, but I'd much rather encourage people to try, fail and try again with some guidance and correction than simply tell people they're not good enough and should simply get out.

[Doki]

I can't explain how funny I find OP's post.

[Vogue]

Communication is key, maybe why not adjust yourself to these "new" ast, who obviously might be having a harder time playing that class. I do that multiple times, end up in Castrum or any other 8 man roulette with other astros, I wait to see what sect they activate before I enable my own. As for card override or whatever, that is something that cannot be avoided, you either want both astros simply not using aoe cards at all (and if so communicating and letting the other ast know that aoe is not an option), or you can just ignore the fact that your card got replaced by another one.

If it is not extremely hard content that would require maximizing dps and whatnot, then why bother so much and get so annoyed about something as simply and irrelevant about losing a buff, you will still clear the content.

[FoxyAreku]

Which end game content are you referring to.

To be fair, it sounds like the issue was related to 2x AST, which is hard to learn in basic dungeons where there is only 1 healer. Did you bring any of this up with them during the run?

Also, afaik, AST Sect that gives regen is generally considered better than shields - no? In this case, don't the regens stack like Medica II/Regen?

Double regen is terrible and leads to nothing but overhealing. Any AST that picks diurnal sect when with a white mage or another diurnal ast is bad and should feel bad (though in the case of the latter, both are at fault as either of them could change).

[KyahAlmasy]

My analogy is actually very appropriate for this situation. It is -entirely- possible to read a whole book or even a series of book on how to play a guitar and still hold it 'the wrong way'. Now, if you mean holding it upside down and backwards, yeah, but that's a whole other issue. The fact is that there is a very specific way to hold a guitar which you can certainly read about, but it's likely that you (unless you're somehow a natural at it) aren't going to get correct right away. There's a nuance in how you hold the neck, in how you play the strings, all of which you can read about but none of which you will ever fully comprehend until you actually do it. (Oh, and in reference to 'playing a guitar with a bow': Violin bow on electric guitar | Frank Steffen Mueller)

And no, if you just learned to play you don't immediately get up and play in a band, but what you should do is find someone else who does know how to do it and have them help you through. The point still comes down to the fact that you don't learn to play by reading, you learn to play by playing. I'm not sitting here saying, "Don't read your skills." By all means, you should be reading them... but you can't expect everyone to suddenly just understand the proper way to play their job through that alone. Many people need to practice those concepts, they need to work with them and see them in action in order to understand when they're effective and when they're not. By saying to a whole group of people 'Unless you can read these skills and know how to play your job, don't bother' you're only serving to perpetuate the very problem you're complaining about.

Maybe it's a difference in ideology here, maybe it's partly because of what I do for a living, but I'd much rather encourage people to try, fail and try again with some guidance and correction than simply tell people they're not good enough and should simply get out.

It's not a "whole other issue" it's actually completely relevant to the point at hand. Not placing your hand at the specific right place on the neck, or not resting it correctly isn't the same as, let's say, holding it upside down or backwards. One suggests that you have some idea of how a guitar is played, and the other suggests that you payed little or no attention all to how a guitar is played. The subtle nuance to holding a guitar isn't the same as the explicit description expressed in a skill ability. One is direct, the other isn't.

The whole point of my parallel was that, you don't learn by playing professionally, or in this case by jumping into endgame content. And yes, I agree having players who do know how to play is a good way of learning! But endgame content isn't the appropriate place to search for help, or learn. You don't read a book on how to play the guitar, and learn by playing for the first time on the stage during a professional concert. That is rude, and inconsiderate to the others who are with you, especially if the party is intended as a clear party. You don't have to join endgame content to learn your job, and in fact it's actually counter productive to try to learn that way, as beginners become easily overwhelmed and unaware of what they're doing wrong among the chaos in fights like Ravana, or Thordan. As a teacher, I would assume you would be well aware that as a beginner, you need to learn in content aligned with your experience, not jump in head first in content above your level. You can easily learn these assets in unsynced primal fights, or story content.

I'd much rather encourage people to learn on their own time in content they can keep up with, than content that requires a party to rely on everyone knowing their job to achieve their goal. There's a time and place to learn, and endgame is not that place.

[Marxam]

How is it physically possible to reach "endgame" without knowing a job considering the eternal suffering of torturous grind it takes to level?

people who bought their wins. This is why I also don't approve of sell carries.

[Kaurie]

Double regen is terrible and leads to nothing but overhealing. Any AST that picks diurnal sect when with a white mage or another diurnal ast is bad and should feel bad (though in the case of the latter, both are at fault as either of them could change).

Double regen certainly has its uses.

I haven't leveled AST yet, due to having 60 WHM/SCH, so I have got my heals down. I just had the understanding that their shields were not very strong, and that the regen was the way to go. Perhaps this was changed/buffed/nerfed over time and I didn't realize.

[Callback]

people who bought their wins. This is why I also don't approve of sell carries.

How is that a possible thing? If I could pay someone to leech my lancer to 34 or whatever the level is to unlock b4b while I AFK on him I would.