More to dungeons :o

[MeiUshu]

It's the sad truth. The common player simply fails to grasp basic things.

because you are not a common player? what are you then?

Everyone of us is a player there are no différences, there are no better or worse, some dungeons you will be good others you will be average and otehrs you will simply suck, that is human NOBODY is good everywhre, might as well remind yourself about this instead of going about demeaning others for not being like you would like them to be.

Puzzle seems a good idea besides nobody will force you to do them..eh? you still hold the choice..of course you would get less tomes...everything has a price afterall

[MilesSaintboroguh]

because you are not a common player? what are you then?

Everyone of us is a player there are no différences, there are no better or worse, some dungeons you will be good others you will be average and otehrs you will simply suck, that is human NOBODY is good everywhre, might as well remind yourself about this instead of going about demeaning others for not being like you would like them to be.

Puzzle seems a good idea besides nobody will force you to do them..eh? you still hold the choice..of course you would get less tomes...everything has a price afterall

A player that actually reads everything.

[Granyala]

because you are not a common player? what are you then?
Everyone of us is a player there are no différences, there are no better or worse, some dungeons you will be good others you will be average and otehrs you will simply suck, that is human NOBODY is good everywhre, might as well remind yourself about this instead of going about demeaning others for not being like you would like them to be.

I'm sorry but there is no political correct way to state that some people are better/more intelligent that others. It's a simple fact of life that human beings are not created equal.
And he is right: the average player in this and virtually every other MMO I have encountered is HORRIBLE in terms of player skill.
Even if you explain basic stuff in detail they royally screw up when it comes to putting it into practice.

Not necessarily because they are unintelligent or something. Many of them simply don't take the game serious enough to devote 100% brain processor time to it when it matters. It is difficult to perform in a raid when you watch netflix and type crap in guild chat.

Raiders are the elite. Savage raiders and people that can perform at that level (I can't either and I am not interested enough to learn. I have 0 problems admitting that) are the very tine elite of the elite maybe 5% of the playerbase.

Just think about it: there is a reason why Void Ark and expert dungeons are pretty easy in terms of tuning.

Yeah there's youtube videos etc, but do you really need an outside source (aside from the games manual) how to play your game?

No.
What you need to do is READ the tooltips of the skill.
THINK for a few seconds about how they might be applied best.
Maybe test a bit at the dummy.

Add a portion of general situational awareness: Voilà: you now possess the skills to perform decently. Not elite but decent that every non savage dungeon/raid should be no problem to handle.

Off topic rant:
God I hate the 1000 char limit. Can't formulate a half coherent answer with that. FIRE the idiot that thought of it and remove it already!

[Kurogaea]

No.
What you need to do is READ the tooltips of the skill.
THINK for a few seconds about how they might be applied best.
Maybe test a bit at the dummy.

Add a portion of general situational awareness: Voilà: you now possess the skills to perform decently. Not elite but decent that every non savage dungeon/raid should be no problem to handle.

Don't think you understand what I said. The game fails to teach you the trinity. It doesn't say "Paladin = become enemy priority one!". You may have skills that tell you about defense and enmity, but where do you use these things? Should I use this flash move to attack multiple mobs? But I gain this enemy attention thing and they're killing me! Would sharing the damage with my teammates be better? Maybe I can defend myself with this buff thing, but I'm still getting hurt! They'd probably never know if they're doing it right unless someone told them that's how it works.

The game teaches you nothing about that. Unless you observed a previous paladin class or played previous mmo's you'd understand clearly what to do, but this game is open to new mmo players and the like which draws in a good amount of new players who are freely playing there new game blindly. (Sword class? Coooool.)

Even if you explain basic stuff in detail they royally screw up when it comes to putting it into practice.

May need to define basic. Aoes are basic, Add killing is basic, adds that explode certain debuffs when killed buffing a nearby monster is not basic and needs to be learned.

[Granyala]

Don't think you understand what I said. The game fails to teach you the trinity. It doesn't say "Paladin = enemy distraction!". You may have skills that tell you about defense and enmity, but where do you use these things? Should I use this flash move to attack multiple mobs? But I gain this enemy attention thing and they're killing me!

Did you even try your class quests?
What you say is explained in detail there.

Granted they don't tell a pally that flash is his main aggro spell but there has to be SOME room for brain activity and experimentation here. After all that IS the purpose of leveling. Gaining skills one at a time, trying it in various scenarios and figuring out where it rocks and where it sucks.

May need to define basic. Aoes are basic, Add killing is basic

Yes and that's already where they fail and fail and fail.
AoE? Look at Titan. Look at how they fail and die.
Adds? Look at the Void Ark Trash before Irminsul how the low HP priority adds get to live while everyone "ERMAGAWD DSP MORBOLZ!11".
AoE2: Look at Echnida, how many people fail to turn around when she casts Petrify even when you explain it in chat before you pull.

[Kurogaea]

Did you even try your class quests?
What you say is explained in detail there.

Granted they don't tell a pally that flash is his main aggro spell but there has to be SOME room for brain activity and experimentation here. After all that IS the purpose of leveling. Gaining skills one at a time, trying it in various scenarios and figuring out where it rocks and where it sucks.

Actually I did do my class quests, and no they told me absolutely nothing. Defending could mean "beat the crap out of baddies in your way before they kill your buddy" or something. Won't mean you'll have to gather enmity of nearby enemies and divert all attacks on you, because even in those situations, your affixed to a npc healer who most likely will suck and render your thoughts to "I should prioritize killing this giant monster as quick as I can so I won't take so much damage", while the little ones do tiny damage. Thinking of how your class/role works is never clear, no matter how hard you think it through as the game doesn't even consider telling you how other classes compliment your role.

Pally was slightly fortunate to have whm as a side class thing....but it never said that healers were defenseless and needed guarding. "These mages can sustain themselves in battles pretty easily!" Is what most new players probably said. Healing others probably wouldn't of crossed their minds, not even if you were tasked to

heal a tree or npc in the quest line

. Makes me glad their adding a training hall though, may fix some of this confusion for new players. Not sure about the mentor thing, players are impatient as it is, optimism for me of course.

Yes and that's already where they fail and fail and fail.
AoE? Look at Titan. Look at how they fail and die.
Adds? Look at the Void Ark Trash before Irminsul how the low HP priority adds get to live while everyone "ERMAGAWD DPS MORBOLZ!11".
AoE2: Look at Echnida, how many people fail to turn around when she casts Petrify even when you explain it in chat before you pull.

Titan: That's more of a reflex issue that can be fixed overtime than a intelligence one which takes a bit longer pending on the person. Not to mention, aoe cast times are not always the same, throwing players off most of the time. Don't get me started on lag lol
Void Ark: Its very clear that's a "Trial and Error" fight, as no one knows those tiny bulbs would be an issue, not to mention "omg big morbol" is in your face while most attention is on them simply because they're bigger, of course no one really notices the little ones the first time through unless your range or a healer happening to be looking around the place to take note of potential dangers.
Echidna: If you told them when the move initiates in rotation, it'd be an inexperienced player case, not the fact that they're not listening. Someone could tell a photographer "make sure to open the other lid before taking a picture with your extra lens protected camera", when They're clearly used to their original camera. They nod, talk to their friends moments later about funny stuff. Forgets for a moment after all the stuff that's happened and snaps a picture..... but forgot to take off the other lens. Its a simple mistake. Messing up is the way of life, we learn from it and make it better. 14 is heavy on that concept, no matter who you are. No one's perfect, doesn't mean they can never understand certain things.

I'd like to know if you never made a mistake when you watched a full video tutorial of a raid fight telling exactly what you should do and completed on the first try. If you did, kudos to you, otherwise you seem rather harsh unreasonable to inexperienced players.

[Leigaon]

Actually I did do my class quests, and no they told me absolutely nothing.

I admit they do hide the information very well, and it's possible to miss it. Maybe though there are those pop up help logs that I forgot but they do tell you how to do things if you, read and enjoy the content. For example. Gladiator.

First two quests, get you taught how to use combos. In the level 5 one it says your job is to command the opponents attention. "However, there are times when we must do battle alongside allies whose talents are not the same as our own. In such situation, your role is not to slay the enemy in front of you, but rather defend the man beside you"

Level 10, both guildhests come up and class quest. The class quest mentions protect Bruce, who will heal you and use your flash technique to get the guys attention. The guildhest is about group management. People instead just go head strong into the fights and do not read.

Now that might not be the case for all jobs. I remember Conjurer being a lot of killing mobs with stone and aero, but the fact that you can cure and are called a Healer..I'm sure if we go back through the dialogue for the quests it might help also.

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As for the dungeons, I think puzzles and mechanics for later fights would do wonders. Also maybe eliminating so many of the trash in between and give us a mini-boss too. Like in the first dungeon, Sastasha, where you had the MDR who dropped the key and instead give him some perks to do things

[Kurogaea]

...

I remember some of that, its really vague since its been so long. Its mostly the first few dungeons where new players have problems getting their bearings on their class roles. Thnx for the added info though

[Granyala]

I'd like to know if you never made a mistake when you watched a full video tutorial of a raid fight telling exactly what you should do and completed on the first try. If you did, kudos to you, otherwise you seem rather harsh unreasonable to inexperienced players.

I was a HORRIBLE gimp back when I started raiding in TBC wow.
But then again WoW is different than FF-XIV. There were no class quests or anything. You were just facerolling quest mobs / level dungeons until suddenly BAM .. raid... suddenly stuff matters... matters A LOT... CC (crowd control) .. what's that?! How do I do that? How do I keep track of another target while DPSing the boss?

Of course I failed to hold an add in CC etc.

If you are saying that today's dumbed down leveling does a piss poor job to prepare people for raid duties: I completely agree.

BUT ... and here comes the kicker: I did these mistakes a few times, others told me what to do and I LEARNED.
Also: no I didn't make mistakes like ignoring priority targets or standing in obvious bad crap (the occasional brain lag excluded ofc, we all have those).
ESP in FF where mere quest mobs yellow stuff does major damage to the character. Shouldn't take a rocket surgeon to come to the conclusion "maybe I should dodge that".
I might not have had the uber DPS rotations figured out but I knew the most important basic: in a raid do what experienced people tell you.
That's what's absent here.

We wipe once .. no big deal. I highlight the important stuff again. READ. We wipe again due to the same fails? Well that's clearly a skill/attention issue.

[Lemuria]

Actually I did do my class quests, and no they told me absolutely nothing.

Maybe next time you should, ya know, read the text instead of speeding through it like it's a bother. Not only do the Paladin quests repeatedly drum into you the need to maintain aggro (and how to do this), some fights are quite impossible to complete without doing this, because the mobs will charge after your healer causing a failure.

So, basically what we've learned is that you didn't pay attention in class. Who would have figured? Oh, and before you get all heated the same applies to other tanking jobs, including Warrior and Dark Knight. Furthermore, the healer quests focus on your ability to keep the fighters alive more than your ability to single-handedly stone everyone to death.