IS WAR as hard as it seems?

[Brian_]

The TC has already said that they're not thinking about Savage right now but I still have to reiterate what I said earlier.

When you are setting the bar so low, the difference in difficulty is negligible because they're all incredibly easy to play.

But, I just have to say that for anyone that actually is wondering about how the tanks play at a high level, this topic is loaded with complete garbage from posters who have no business talking about a job's performance in the hardest and most demanding content.

Seriously? PLD harder to play than WAR? What is even going on here? If you have issues with holding aggro in a dungeon run (or even in a raid) on any tank, you are no where near the level where you should be discussing the skill cap of a class. Aggro is a non-issue for all the tanks unless you are severely under-geared. DRK? Having more buttons to mindlessly spam off-CD doesn't make you harder to play.

For one, WAR is the only tank where you actually need to think when gearing. PLD? ACC cap --> Crit --> Det. DRK? ACC cap --> Crit --> Det. For WARs, you actually need a varying amount of SkS depending on your latency and comfort level. Too much SkS and you waste stat budgeting that could've gone to crit. Too little and you lose a 2 GCDs. Properly executing a triple FC 9 GCD Berserk window while potting and dealing with mechanics is harder than anything PLD or DRK have to do.

DRKs and PLDs only have 2 openers. They have an MT opening for aggro and a OT opening for DPS. WARs have an MT opening for aggro and multiple OT openings for different fights. On Thordan EX, it makes more sense to use a manual stack-building opener -- the Berserk pacification window lines up perfectly with Dragon's Gaze, having Vengeance / Raw Intuition on CD earlier doesn't really matter, and your general stack usage is really efficient. On A3S, it makes more sense to use a pre-infuriate opener -- you can squeeze in an additional Vengeance usage before add-phase tethers. These are the things you think about on WAR that you don't have to deal with on PLD or DRK. Just because you might not play at the level doesn't mean that what I'm saying is some fantasy.

Another way that there is a subtle difference in skill requirement is their DoT upkeep. With PLDs, it's pretty mindless because your DoT upkeep is a natural part of your rotation. DRKs are similar to WARs except DRKs don't actually need to worry about trying to line up their DoT application with Deliverance stacks and your Berserk / IR windows.

Just because WAR is really strong right now in terms of balance doesn't mean every single butt-hurt tank can make ridiculous, wrong, and misleading claims about it.

[Syzygian]

DRK? Having more buttons to mindlessly spam off-CD doesn't make you harder to play.

Except if you're mindlessly spamming them you aren't playing the job right. Due to MP-to-DPS cost efficiency there is actually a priority system in place on what to use, and in what order. And because they all have such short recasts you have to constantly worry about it. Oh, and then there's procs, which can change the flow of things entirely. I'm sorry but this is a fucking video game, if the difficulty isn't in pushing buttons then where is it? Having to think critically about stats and boss fights? Oh bother, how do us dumb non-WAR tanks do that again?

Lining up cooldowns and pushing secondary stats is not unique to WAR. If you think triple Cleaving while dealing with mechanics is hard I question whether you've had experience playing an actual DPS job. Its really simple: "Am I going to have 20s of uptime to do my x3 cleave? If not, are the mechanics such that I won't be able to make it back within melee range in the scope of my GCD?". As for DRK, try maximizing DoT/debuff uptime with your attack speed jumping up and down. Try having to manage a resource that isn't cut neatly into 5 user friendly stacks. Try double-weaving constantly while actively tanking without screwing up and delaying your GCD, or working in that proc that'll be gone in seconds (oh wait you can't because you have a whopping 1 oGCD). Your post just proves you have pushed WAR to the limit but haven't bothered to do the same with the other tanks, and anyone with ears knows how to push WAR to the limit by now because the lot of you won't shut up about it. Its extremely well documented and publicized information, how to push WAR to its limit and play it optimally. What isn't as well known is how to play the other tanks on the same level, particularly DRK, and any attempts to put this information in the spotlight or suggest a situational advantage another tank may have result in every WAR main descending like hellfire onto the thread to defend their place as da bestest tank evar. To say nothing of newer players that hear almost nothing but a constant "Just go WAR".

What you're trying to say is that WAR forces you to not only tank but also worry about offensive cooldown rotations/durations/recasts and lining those up with certain abilities which is something every DPS in the game has been doing forever. DRK has something entirely different that every DPS also has to deal with and that's maximizing DPS/mechanic execution while having a never-ending stream of buttons to push in between your GCD, and pushing those buttons in an effective priority while managing a resource. Both tanks have an increased DPS burden/learning curve just in different areas. For the best tank in the game, WARs sure are defensive about their seemingly impregnable throne, and above all, they can't seem to defend it without woefully underselling the other two tanks.