IS WAR as hard as it seems?

[kensatsu]

That's not true for everyone i play war, and i MT in raid exept for A2S,
Because i can switch in delivrance when i MT, and it make a loose of dps to make my PLD mate doing more Rage of Halone if he MT, in A1S we tryed if the PLD take opressor in MT we loose 300 of dps for both tank, when i get opressor in MT, i just take aggro and burst in delivrance, i loose a very few dps, but the pld win 300 dps when OT. So as long i can burst in delivrance on Boss i don't have to OT them if i have a pld mate. the same can happen in A3S, in the first phase you can burst in delivrance when you MT, you can do it in P2 also. (i remember a pick upp asking me why i MT, it should be obvious, but it tell me a lot of player think war have to OT no matter what)
When i agree to say War is the easiest, yeah it's the easiest tank to begin with
But when you know how to tank, any tank is not difficult.
Someone have said the War is the easiest tank to get the full potential of, actualy i watched a lot of Clear video of A3s, A4s, i don't agree, a lot of War get the full potential of the dps output, it's look like many War care a lot about this. I don't see a lot of war when forced to be in defiance, trying to get Inner Beast Timed with the boss cleave, so a lot of war don't have the full potential to be as tanky as possible. Because it's not that easy to doing that.
the dps rotation is not difficult at all, use of self heal too and keep cd for tank burster too, you are good when you can use all these skill with synergy, but it's not the full potential of a war, many war can be better.

[Februs]

??????????????????? Delirium being reset early literally affects nothing. You apply the DoT when it falls off, you have 1 DoT. What. What?? WHAT?? Honestly. Honestly. Come on.

2 DoT's, for Drk actually. Salt of the Earth and Scourge. Otherwise yes, though. None of the tanks are particularly difficult.

[Twilite]

I just can not figure out what people are finding difficult about DRK. Is it because you have more buttons to press? Is pressing buttons difficult for some people?

The slow animations of every swing had put me off from the job. It is hard to explain, but it feels like I'll be too slow to grab threat, etc. And can never be because of buttons lol when you have to press a million buttons on WAR.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

War has even fewer buttons to press than paladin though.

[Brian_]

War has even fewer buttons to press than paladin though.

Except they don't.

WARs use every single skill they have pretty regularly and a lot stay relevant regardless of role.

PLDs don't. Cover is rarely used, Clemency is rarely used, Tempered Will is rarely used, Shield Bash is rarely used, one of their cross-class skills is basically a throw away, and a lot of their skills do nothing when they aren't being hit. PLDs have a very small number of skills you frequently use and a lot of buttons you might press a couple times per raid tier.

DRKs also share the issue of some of their skills being situational and others being useless while not being hit (either at all or by a specific damage type). But, at least DRKs have a larger spread of buttons they need to frequently press.

[Blackbird1]

Oh god no war might have a few extra keys but it's far easier then pld or drk since your not worrying about things like mp management. Once you've learned the rotations it's fairly easy plus you got a kick ass axe instead of a sword and shield. imo best to put your points to str when lvling to 50 before desiding on switching to something like str and vit just make sure you got your provoke and whatever else you think you'll need

[Brian_]

People will tell you that DRK is harder because that aspect of their playstyle that is DPS-like never stops, and isn't limited to just their burst period.

The hardest part about playing a DPS is not their cruise-control rotation spam while fitting in their oGCDs. It's properly aligning their burst based on fight mechanics, boss phases, skill synergy, CD windows, and up-time -- and, that's what WARs are constantly doing. You don't just say "oh hey, 20 seconds of uptime, time to triple FC." You have to understand how your CD expenditure fits into the entire fight like I already explained. Again, this is why I repeatedly say the DRKs play more in the moment and WARs require a much better understanding of the overall fight. You can't say that WAR's similarities to DPS are incredibly simple without going two steps further and reaching the realization that DRK's DPS elements are even simpler.

Looking back, I'm pretty sure that the exact wording was that Pld is the hardest tank for maintaining threat, specifically, due to the fact that they have the lowest enmity multiplier of all three tanks.

No. Numerous people in this topic have made the claim that in general, PLD is harder than WAR. It was not restricted to threat. Are you agreeing?

But, even if you look at threat, it's not harder to keep aggro on PLD. It's just less damage efficient. It's not harder to use RoH instead of RA in your 3 combo rotation. It's not harder to Flash instead instead of Overpower or Abyssal Drain / Unleash.

In regards to AoE enmity, I don't know what world you live in but how are you supposed to rotate RoH through a pull of 10 mobs before the rest of your party starts to bomb heals / AoEs? You can't. You pull, you CoS after the gather, you Flash a couple times to solidify enmity, and then you are trying to get up as many unique GB DoTs as possible before switching to RA to finish off the almost dead mobs. You use your SS and SW to neutralize an annoying AoE or just to push damage / enmity and CoS off CD. You do not spam Flash. Outside of the very rare small pull, you do not cycle RoH. You make the claim to know the math but clearly don't. RoH is something like 163 potency per GCD in ShO. GB when you are getting full and unique DoT duration is 230+ per GCD. For every combo rotation of GB, you are gaining more than an extra GCD of damage over RoH. On a large pull, if you prioritize GB and use the occasional flash to supplement your AoE enmity (single-target enmity should be handled through your GB damage + SW + SS), you get more enmity AND more damage.

Is that harder than what DRKs and WARs deal with? Sure. But, it doesn't outweigh the overall ease of playing PLD.

Sorry to tell you this, but this is also not accurate.

I never said they were exactly the same. They obviously aren't since DRG oGCD is much more nuanced. But, all your details ignore the fundamental ways they are the same and instead argues the minutia and is just superfluous ranting.

On both DRG and DRK, you have a lot of oGCDs that you want to use as frequently as possible with a set priority and within a given rule set.

Just like how DRGs shouldn't use animation lock oGCD jumps before they need to reposition for a positional GCD, DRKs shouldn't be blowing their Reprisal proc at an inappropriate time when it's needed to mitigate an upcoming damage mechanic. The priority and rule set DRKs play around consists of fight mechanics and potency to MP efficiency. The priority and rule set DRGs play around consists of fight mechanics, GCD synergy and buff synergy. Same general concept but with different rules.

If you are familiar with the ideas behind oGCD usage on a DRG, DRK oGCD usage is child's play. Why? Again, because you are merely adapting to different rules and priorities. It's not hard to remember MP priorities of DA C&S --> Dark Passenger --> DA Soul Eater if MP is ever an issue (and it's usually not). It's not hard to remember to save Plunge when it's needed as a gap closer -- DRGs and MNKs already do that with their gap closers. It's not hard to hold Salted Earth to avoid an immunity window or Reprisal for a fight mechanic -- DPS already do that with their buff management.

Oh god no war might have a few extra keys but it's far easier then pld or drk since your not worrying about things like mp management. Once you've learned the rotations it's fairly easy plus you got a kick ass axe instead of a sword and shield. imo best to put your points to str when lvling to 50 before desiding on switching to something like str and vit just make sure you got your provoke and whatever else you think you'll need

PLDs have MP management?

And you could say the same thing about DRKs in relation to their MP management. Once you've learned the rotations it's fairly easy since your MP management is based on a priority rotation and not being a complete moron.

[Lyth]

Most of the additions to WAR with Heavensward were quality-of-life changes. While this hasn't made the job "simpler", it certainly is more forgiving to play than it used to be in the 2.x series. Even if you make a poor decision, something good still happens because of the amazing synergy between all the skills. Although you are required to "manage" stacks, there rarely is a situation where you are punished and left resource-starved for doing this poorly, outside of an incorrectly timed berserk. (Incidently, one of the best ways to become better at stack management and buff timing on WAR is to spend a good amount of time practicing hudless, which isn't feasible at all on DRK.)

Any job becomes more complex as you come to better understand its potential. There's a good bit of nuance and skill to playing WAR well, but it certainly is the most straightforward tank class to pick up and play at the moment. That's more a testament to it's design than anything else.

[Sayora]

I found WAR to be pretty easy to learn how to play because everything really does fit well together. I play DRK more but I really do appreciate how well-designed WAR is.

[Riki_Namu]

So without all the long explanation. Being amazing as a war is complicated and harder than being amazing at the other two tank classes.