Yoshi - Players who "Like" Challenges would ALSO like to obtain a Relic Weapon

[Reilyn]

On that note, I'm sure people who don't like challenging content would also like to get an easier but more time consuming way to get the raid weapons, especially when it comes at the same time as the content itself.

So why not make the next Alexander Savage weapons grindable via tokens from normal mode?

It's only fair to have a way to make the hard way easier but longer if you can make the long way harder but shorter.

Not sure if you're trying to mock earlier suggestions, but that is something you can't do.

We already seen the effects of putting gear and weapons on par with items from the hardest content in less challenging content through diadem, and to a lesser extent, relic weapons; raid participation goes down due to a lack of incentives, and even yoshi admits to diadem's 210 gear being a major design error for doing just that. Relic being on par with gordian (or surpassing it entirely for certain classes) is effectively the same thing.

So yeah, don't count on it.

[Zojha]

Not sure if you're trying to mock earlier suggestions, but that is something you can't do.

It is precisely what is being suggested here applied to the other end of the spectrum. Mostly to see whether that would "rub anyone the wrong way" if people see it from the other side. It's an easy way to spot hypocrites.

Personally, I'm all for letting more challenging content drop tokens for the relic as well, because you should be empowered to do more challenging content to progress if you so please. It should just not be any faster than the other way. And if you now ask:"What's the point then?", you are really asking what's the point of challenging content in the first place.

[Reilyn]

It is precisely what is being suggested here applied to the other end of the spectrum. Mostly to see whether that would "rub anyone the wrong way" if people see it from the other side. It's an easy way to spot hypocrites.

Well again, diadem, and relic chain are examples of what would happen if your bait became reality already as well as it being a confirmed hiccup in design, so I'm not sure how many people would really fall for that.

Personally, I'm all for letting more challenging content drop tokens for the relic as well, because you should be empowered to do more challenging content to progress if you so please. It should just not be any faster than the other way.

Aaaaand why people shouldn't be rewarded more for doing challenging content...?

[Arashmin]

And it would be incorrect to say it would necessarily be faster if it provided greater speed, at least if handled responsibly. Even if it was allowed from some unsync'd old content, you still need a lot of coordination and skill that is going to take up much more time than your average Alex/Beast Tribe/whatever nonsense you choose to swarm.

[Reilyn]

And it would be incorrect to say it would necessarily be faster if it provided greater speed, at least if handled responsibly. Even if it was allowed from some unsync'd old content, you still need a lot of coordination and skill that is going to take up much more time than your average Alex/Beast Tribe/whatever nonsense you choose to swarm.

I'm not too crazy about running old synched content idea myself; it needs to be handled perfectly, or else it would be abused for instant relics for no effort.

I'd be okay with making people jump through a1s at least for a large reward in 3rd step progress to a relic weapon. The game needs more incentives to get people raiding again.

By not doing so, putting some of the best 210 gear in diadem, and making the most efficient method of getting your relic equate to do anything but raid alexander savage, it's like they really don't want people doing alexander savage anymore or something.

[Zojha]

Well again, diadem, and relic chain are examples of what would happen if your bait became reality already as well as it being a confirmed hiccup in design, so I'm not sure how many people would really fall for that.

If you give people two choices and they all prefer one over the other, even though they yield the same rewards, it begs the question why even offer the choice nobody prefers. After all, it needs enough support to validate the development ressources put into it.

You are currently painting a picture of raids being pointless content that should be discontinued. Is that what you want? I'm sure it's not. But that's what you are arguing here. I would fix it if I were you.

As for the latter question: What is more valuable, your limited time on earth or your skill in a particular video game? And which would you rather part with? The answer is subjective of course, but in my opinion, investing time should always be rewarded more than skill.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Patience is a challenge. Judging by the feedback on these boards it is one of the greatest challenges. Redundancy is not mutually exclusive to challenging. In fact some of the greatest challenges to mankind have been insanely redundant and conquered.

But it's not, no one has patience because the content isn't fun. Even if it were fun the grind is excessive, taking the limited fun out of all the areas they allow us to use to compete it. Put it this way Shakespeare is fun for a brief moment but would you really want to read Macbeth or Romeo and Juliet 800 times? Poe is more dark and frightening of readings but again 800 times with The Raven or The Bells isn't fun. The content needs to be in abundance and entertaining for a grind like this to work.


It's like they're pulling a Phantasy Star Online Episode 1 and 2 with this level of grind. But the difference between that game and this game is PSO E1 and 2 actually had environment, music and a hefty amount of side quests that all counted toward the grind of gear. Not to mention hidden items that required combinations of items, you want that chu chu fever? Better go get to level 101, have a chu chu mag and a spirit garment. In this game? Want that shiney weapon? Kill Faust 8000 times and then buy 45 items that cost 500 tomes a pop then fight Garuda at 5pm eorzean time with a full party of no double classes. Congrats on your shiney.

[Arashmin]

As for the latter question: What is more valuable, your limited time on earth or your skill in a particular video game? And which would you rather part with? The answer is subjective of course, but in my opinion, investing time should always be rewarded more than skill.

But that's assuming no time went into developing that skill, which isn't the case. This is time already spent, and having to re-spend with each expansion as new abilities, rotations, classes, BiS stats, enemy mechanics, etc. are introduced. Effectively under the current design the relic is far more rewarding to someone who only recently just got to 60, and by the time they complete they're going to be 190/200 in all else, and they could be watching Netflix the entire time, whereas those of us who are on the cusp and wants more challenges but can hardly find a thriving venue are left with unfun choices. It invalidates all of the time for non-raiders, whether by choice or by just not having the time/life resources to throw at it, from 3.0 all the way up.

[RHarris1349]

So basically what you're saying is that you want an alternative to the crafting aspect of Anima? My highest DoH/DoL is a 42 MIN, so coming from someone who doesn't craft or gather AT ALL I see this as a new challenge I'm gonna have to spend a little time on.

So, for some people Primals and the 3 Coils are easy. I think to set up such a huge alternative along with allllll the other alternatives they give the player would basically give everyone a relic on first day. (Then the issues on the forum would be about how easy it is to get relic!) I'm not backing the "gonna take time" arguement, I'm backing the "git gud" arguement. Now, I fall into that category cause I'm gonna have to go level crafting or sell expensive runs/clears, like I said I'm far from a crafter.

But if that means I get, what OP called, "... weapons that almost every FF fan would like to obtain." Then I'd rather put in actual work than whine 'cause it's too easy for everyone to get a relic.

[RHarris1349]

Where's the fun in it if you can just go out and get it?