Add a unique stat to the new Relics, so they are worth obtaining. Enough is enough.

[Kaurie]

Vehicles are a necessity, small trait boosts on gear isn't.

We could easily get by with public transportation.

The reason why that isn't an argument for cars is not because they are a necessity, it's because it's a rare occurrence. The frequency x value is greater than the frequency x risk. As is the same with making a form of entertainment that we pay for more entertaining the value x frequency is greater than the risk x frequency.

[Velhart]

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You have too much faith in a community that will take the easy route out if the opportunity is given to them. If FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 are any indication, a horizontal system with added traits just makes an unbalanced mess the developers are not willing to handle to put extra time into make it work. Not to mention, these traits have to be made and balanced out that it does not break the job....each patch. That is including when job adjustments have to be made. Its a mess to work with, and in doing so, takes longer for our patches to come out.

You have to ask yourself why the current systems in place, why a certain idea may not work. You have to look at the perspective on both a player and developer standpoint. From a developer standpoint, it looks like a pain in the ass to constantly work with said features.

[Kallera]

I really don't like where this is going. From both standpoints.

[Stanelis]

If FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 are any indication, a horizontal system with added traits just makes an unbalanced mess the developers are not willing to handle to put extra time into make it work

FFXIV V1.0 was a failed game, but FFXI's system was actually working quite well. Let me remind you that FFXI was once the second or third MMORPG on the market in term of concurrent number of subscribers. Also, even with largely homogeneized classes in the current FFXIV, classes are still unbalanced (cf the tank situation or the machinist /bard issues).

That is including when job adjustments have to be made. Its a mess to work with, and in doing so, takes longer for our patches to come out.

You mean that SE developpers would actually have to do their job and partake in actual game design, rather than just work on the technical aspects of their games ? Yeah FFXI battle system was indeed like 50 times more complex than FFXIV's 2.0 and it is indeed very hard to come up with a decent battle system; but that doesn't mean we should be happy with what is currently in FFXIV.

[Alberel]

You have too much faith in a community that will take the easy route out if the opportunity is given to them. If FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 are any indication, a horizontal system with added traits just makes an unbalanced mess the developers are not willing to handle to put extra time into make it work. Not to mention, these traits have to be made and balanced out that it does not break the job....each patch. That is including when job adjustments have to be made. Its a mess to work with, and in doing so, takes longer for our patches to come out.

You have to ask yourself why the current systems in place, why a certain idea may not work. You have to look at the perspective on both a player and developer standpoint. From a developer standpoint, it looks like a pain in the ass to constantly work with said features.

The current system is in place because the devs don't want to put the work into balancing a complex and interesting stat system. It's that simple.

You are basically advocating removing anything that some people might use to exclude other players. Newsflash: players are ALREADY excluded from raids and such. Should we remove raids completely because some players exclude certain jobs? Oh that's a point, why did we ever add AST when raid groups still prefer taking WHM and SCH? Guess AST better be deleted pronto.

Do you realise how silly your logic sounds?

When you have a choice between a system that is easy to balance but incredibly boring, or a system that is harder to balance but much more fun, which would you prefer? Bear in mind the entire point of these games is ultimately fun... there doesn't seem much point in the risk-free boring option does there?

[DragonSlayer45]

Can someone give me an example of a unique trait on a weapon that would not be useless or unbalanced to the ilvl scheme?

There's a ton of ways they can go about it without making it hideously unbalanced, just a boost to make the relic feel unique. Make the relic tie in with the job.

Dragoon relics can boost Jump damage.
Monk relics extend Greased Lightning duration.
Bard relics decrease the amount of MP songs use and expands the area of effect for songs.
Black Mage relics boost Astral Fire damage and also decrease the amount of MP used during Astral Fire.
White Mage relics boost outgoing healing and Holy damage.
Tank relics provide a decrease in damage.
Machinist relics decrease the cooldown time on Reload.

If they can't do it because "Item Level" then that shows how broken and bland the system really is.

[Kaurie]

You have too much faith in a community that will take the easy route out if the opportunity is given to them. If FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 are any indication, a horizontal system with added traits just makes an unbalanced mess the developers are not willing to handle to put extra time into make it work. Not to mention, these traits have to be made and balanced out that it does not break the job....each patch. That is including when job adjustments have to be made. Its a mess to work with, and in doing so, takes longer for our patches to come out.

You have to ask yourself why the current systems in place, why a certain idea may not work. You have to look at the perspective on both a player and developer standpoint. From a developer standpoint, it looks like a pain in the ass to constantly work with said features.

I have faith that the people I run in to will be the same people I run in to. In that, when they say things like "play what you want" or don't care when someone comes with a hive weapon, then they wouldn't care with these other things.

I think that it's part of the design team to balance things, yes. I also don't think that is too much to ask. I also think it's part of their job to plan for people taking the easy route and to design things accordingly (look at Diadem, this is an example of either very very poor planning, or them not caring about what would happen - Honestly could see what would happen after being in Diadem for like 30 seconds).

I know why the current systems are in place, and I think that it's a stupid mentality. "It didn't work for someone else, so it can't work" or "It can work, but I am too lazy to put in the time for it, so instead let's make LoV". It can work, it has worked, I've played games where it worked. I think that the current system is bland and doesn't support the idea of making things fun, which is ultimately what the game should be.

[RiceisNice]

Now if you want to put a runic system in place where you can add your own traits to gear, that is a step in the right direction, but it has to be done right that would not break the system. At the same time however, that is hard for developers to balance out per gear patch or they could just rebalance the job itself to work like that.

In consideration with the state of the game, the content rehashes we are getting, etc, there's going to be a point where that excuse just won't sit anymore. It 's also in regards to "server limitations" for other features like cross-data center (esp for the small servers with dead raiding scenes) and better housing circumstances.

They could opt to put in secondary bonuses onto all weapons and not just relic. Of course people will still flock to whatever is BiS and outright exclude people for not having it, but this is already the case to begin with in regards to the very minimal horizontal gear progression we have, only it's not tangible in actual gameplay because all it really changes is numbers, combine that with an unchanging update of contents we get, it really feels like we're stuck in a rut for what we can potentially do in this game. The third option is just make the relic weapons have some sort of aesthetic value to it. To me, Armageddon isn't an different from a gordian gun or heavensfire, so why should I go above and beyond to option it? You could say it's upgradable, but it's essentially following the same concept of me acquiring another weapon from the next tier of raid. The game severely lacks ways of making your character feel empowered beyond reaching the level 60 cap, and it doesn't bide well if we aren't getting new content alongside that.

[Velhart]

FFXIV V1.0 was a failed game, but FFXI's system was actually working quite well. Let me remind you that FFXI was once the second or third MMORPG on the market in term of concurrent number of subscribers.

Did you play FFXI? Ask the Puppetmasters how much end game time they got sticking to their job. Jobs were excluded from end game content and still is today in that game. Very balanced. Certain traits on gear made it BiS for years and made 95% of choices on other gear not an option.

You mean that SE developpers would actually have to do their job and partake in actual game design, rather than just working on the technical aspects of their games ?

You have to remember that when they have to go through a longer process in terms of gear adjusting/balancing, and constantly having to rework traits and job balancing to meet the criteria of being balanced, they delay the patch further, ultimately having us suffer in the process.

People only know what they want and don't even bother to think of the repercussions of adding the system in. It isn't simply copy/paste traits in and everything just magically works itself from there. That is not the reality of the situation. Every small, tiny, insignificant thing they add in or take out can cause a major balance issue to the game. I am not 100% defending the developers, but no one takes perspective into account when they throw ideas like this in.

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Like I said before, yes the developers do need to shake up the system some, because it is boring. I ask people who throw suggestions in to look at both sides of the argument when doing so. Developers should always be stepping up their game, but at the same time, putting a strain only affects us at the end of the day.

If anything, people should ask SE to throw money at the FFXIV team to get more people in to make new and great ideas on how to keep the system fresh. There are ideas out there to make things work in everyone's favor.

[Kaurie]

no one takes perspective into account when they throw ideas like this in.

Of course we do. We all understand that this will require development time, and that it may not be ready tomorrow if they ask. We understand that it may delay other things, or take away development of other things.

People such as myself, want this so much that we'd be happy to not get additions to things like Gold Saucer and so on, while they use those resources to develop this.

I'd be fine if tomorrow I woke up and Yoshi said "We have heard the feedback regarding adding interesting stats to items. We think this is something that can definitely benefit the game, but it needs to be done right. If we rush it, then there may be balance issues. We expect that we will be able to have this in the release of 3.4" - at least then I'll see it acknowledged and have an idea of when to expect it.