healer vit points

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Also, my final .02c: Please, bring me THE BEST FULL SUPPORT SORCERER BUILD, if it is so accepted in the community, you will find the perfect build written with a quick google search. Point is: If you are saying that is impossible to bring customization to FFXIV, then I agree, fine. But saying that its impossible in any MMO is a blatant lie, not all MMOs are based on math only. For most maybe, but every? This is streching it.

For starters, you have the wrong idea about what my standpoint is. I'm not saying "customisation" is impossible for FF14. But the ability to choose your own preferences is merely an illusion. Or rather: Choice is an illusion. You're even mentioning it yourself: It can be fun or unorthodox and you even mentioned it yourself that some skills/builds are useless. But in the end you'll have no choice but to change your initial skill pick once you hit the brick wall that a soloist cannot climb over. In case of Final Fantasy XIV, you could go for your own rotation if you want. Anyone that's aiming for the highest DPS ceiling will always go for a certain rotation, however. Ergo: Your "choices" are being funneled by the community. I hope you understand you're also part of the community that's doing the funneling as well by just this particular sentence:

I never said that all skills and builds are useful in RO, there should have some common sense.

[Eothas]

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I know what a Illusion is. But what you are trying to say is: If I can't be a Melee Wizard, then there is no choice. You are wrong. A build --can-- be effective and still be different. No, a battle priest will not be effective in end game content, but a Full Support can be effective and different from another Full Support.

If I go back to play Ragnarok, like right now, I'm sure that I'll not have the same exactly build as anyone else, and I'll still be effective, and no, I'll not be under performing. In Ragnarok you don't need the "most DPS as possible" or "Most HPS as possible", everything can be very subjective.

In Final Fantasy you need the most DPS as possible to pass DPS checks, you put all skills in a calculator and do the math "This skill will have X potency with X debuff, I'll do X DPS so X rotation will always be better".

Now how you will put in a Calculator skills like Magnetic Earth? Dispell? Spell Breaker? Hide? Cloak? Safety Wall? "Please Don't Forget me"? Kaupe? Kaite? Specially in a WoE scenario? Yes, there will be a X oriented prefered build for certain content, but you will NEVER see the same exactly build, and everyone following it, because its not needed at all. If anything, following guides without thinking in Ragnarok is a detriment to your character, because situations can vary A LOT. And even guides vary from guide to guide.

If you are saying that we have no choices because you can't be a novice lvl 99, or a melee wizard in end game content, then... well, thats your opinion.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Snip

You still don't get it. You're even repeatedly mentioning it yourself. You can be a melee wizard if you want to in RO. Or in case of FF14: You can be an arcanist with carbuncle at level 60. But will you get anything done like that? Or try and get into something more casual like a level 50 dungeon with the base class and no soul stone equipped. Will anyone invite you for your choice? Or will you even feel good about it, knowing you're gimping yourself with your choice? Doesn't matter what you pick. If it's not in line with what the community needs or want, you'll either:
Lose your "freedom of choice" by doing what the community wants or "suggests"
Lose out on a good chunk of content of the game

Go ahead, I dare you to enter a random King Thordan EX PF as a Conjurer - Assuming your main job is White Mage as your profile states. Not equipping the soul stone is a "choice" after all. It even gives you access to some cross class abilities. Now I don't need to know the result, as it can be faked by going in there with 7 friends just to prove a point. But that's also a choice that creates another illusion.

[Eothas]

..

Yes, I keep mentioning melee wizard, because you keep mentioning battle priest. No one in they right mind would be a Melee Wizard, that means that there is no choice in the game like you are saying? Obviously not. There is multiple decent builds for a full damage dealer Wizard/Warlock. Thats my point.

But you are trying to say that there is no choice because you will not be effective as a battle priest, because you can't play what you want. You are saying "Oh, but I can't be a melee priest, because the community will not accept it, so there is no choice." Which is absolutely untrue. You are trying to force this battle priest build, but you are not mentioning the other 1000 combinations of full support archbishop/High Priest that can be accepted.

You are trying to force the worst builds in existence to justify that there is no choice. But please, don't forget to mention the other 100 different builds that can and will be accepted.

I'm still waiting for the perfect build, for any class, that you keep saying that exists. In FF for Ninja its full DEX, simple, right? I found it in less than 10 seconds in Google, bring me a perfect build for any class in Ragnarok, then I'll believe you. Don't forget the skill tree, gear and cards combination.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

snip

Here you are again with the "no choice" thing. I never said that there's no choice. I said that choice is an illusion. I'll repeat it again for good measure, as you don't seem to get it: choice is an illusion. Having no choice at all means you are forced to press the "increase str" button because everything else is grayed out. Choice of illusion would mean you're put in a situation where the choices aren't equivalent. Since you're still bringing up RO, I'll just go with it. Melee mage and proper spell mage? This comes from two perspectives:
Player playing the mage gets to choose between those variations
Community can choose mages of those variations

No party would pick up a random mage that'll just smack their wands at an MVP. But the player playing the mage may still choose to do so.
In case of the player playing said mage, it's Hobson's choice: Something or nothing. You can choose for nothing (melee mage) or choose for something (proper mage)

Even then the proper mage would be confronted with choice again: Is your build properly set up for the objectives of the party? Once again: Hobson's choice. They either reset and get something, or stick with their build and get nothing.

Heck, even the game itself has an illusion of choice. You want that Safety wall? Invest 12 points into perquisite abilities, even when there are better options to spend those points on. Or as a priest you'd want Pneuma? 7 points investment and 6 of them have zero combat value. If it's not the game, the community will brand you if you choose to advance your job at 40, rather than 50. I don't have to provide you "the perfect build". As there's simply none because you'd always have to adjust it for the group's objective.

[Eothas]

...

Illusion: "Something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality".

If there is a "Illusion of Choice", mean thats there no choice at all. This term "Illusion of Choice" in a MMO is given when Option A will always be better than Option B. And it is found doing math calculations.

Choice of illusion would mean you're put in a situation where the choices aren't equivalent..

Hello? Choices have to be equivalent? e.g.: 1 INT = + 50MATK | 1 STR = + 50MATK? Because that would be bs. You want to smash your keyboard when choosing stats and want them to be useful? Of course they will not be EQUIVALENT, but with careful thinking you can always do your own useful build, with common sense of course. Seems like you didnt played RO enough to know it.

"Stats weights" don't exist in RO. You can't find it.

This statement accompanied of:

Even then the proper mage would be confronted with choice again: Is your build properly set up for the objectives of the party? Once again: Hobson's choice. They either reset and get something, or stick with their build and get nothing.

Makes me think that YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY A GAME WITH CHOICES.

And even then what you said is a lie, I already have said 1000 times to you, but you always try to dance around it. Let's define a "Proper Mage", lets say, Warlock with Comet, there can have two, three warlocks with comet wanting to hang out with said party, with different builds, one can use Elvira Cards, the other can have more points in DEX, other in INT, they all will be useful with their own touchs to their own builds that adequates their playstyle. **AND ITS NOT A ILLUSION, BECAUSE IT CAN CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY YOUR GAMEPLAY, AND YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO HAVE THE BUILD OF WARLOCK 1 2 OR 3** unless you are in very specific WoE case, and even then its questionable. theres a lot of subtle changes in builds that players can do, and it's not a Illusion.

It's not a illusion, there is choices, valid choices, I can stay here all day giving examples of VALID different builds for the same class, for the same X oriented build. But seems like by illusion you means that, I'll repeat, you don't want to play a game with choices. You want a homogenized game, which I already have given my opinion, you can go back and see in post #62.

Heck, even the game itself has an illusion of choice. You want that Safety wall? Invest 12 points into perquisite abilities, even when there are better options to spend those points on. I don't have to provide you "the perfect build". As there's simply none because you'd always have to adjust it for the group's objective.

lol? Safety Wall is a really strong spell, it makes sense to put it behind a wall of points. As an Archbishop you could choose between a level 10 SW and lvl 3 Epiclesis. Maybe level 8 SW and level 5 Epiclesis. Both could be useful. No one would exclude you of a party between one of these two choices, only if you want to be extreme and want to be a ridiculous battle priest, then they would exclude you, within reason. A reminder, none of these two subtle choices is a ILLUSION, unless, again, you don't want choices. Subtle choices like this is something that lots of FFXIV players dream of everyday.

You can't provide a perfect build, because there is no Illusion, even for the same objective players can have different builds, even if only with subtle changes, there is no "set in stone" build. I'll ease it to you. Provide me the perfect build for a WoE Full Support Sorcerer. I gave you something VERY SPECIFIC. Please, I want to "adjust" my build.

spoiler: you can't find it, even for something specific that you say players would "adjust".