I Hate Trash

[Callback]

Trash pulls, specifically. They're all so boring. It's needless grindy filler designed purely to slow the party down.

That's why I like Void Ark. Even its "trash rooms" (outside of the first couple pulls but those are mercifully fast) act as a miniboss challenge with actual things to do.

Wouldn't it be great if all future dungeons replaced trash pulls and were instead a gauntlet of 6-8 bosses/minibosses, perhaps with some terrain-based challenges to navigate in between? It would balance out to about the same clear times, but it would be so much more exciting to play.


As for the bosses themselves, I'd love to see an increase in bosses who are fought in different ways like Biggy from Copperbell Hard, or the Yeti from Snowcloak. Perhaps some bosses based mainly around dodging while working together/waiting for an opening to make the boss vulnerable to attack. This type of boss would have rather low health, and focus mostly on the mechanics with only a tiny amount of DPS on each "hit." Too many current bosses are just the DPS bashing their faces against a wall until it breaks, with dodging and other mechanics as a distraction rather than the main substance of the fight.


What do you think? Do you want more interesting and dynamic combat to make the game more fun? What kinds of bosses would you like to fight?

[KaitlanKela]

Seriously, everyone hates trash. Wait...


I LOVE TRASH

Sorry, I had to. Your idea is good.

[PogueX]

I think most players feel the same which is why Alexander dungeons only has a few trash pulls before the boss

They are even more boring as a PLD, shield lob, flash, flash and combos.....bornig

[Iagainsti]

I hate to be the harbinger of the "good ol' days" but in FFXI every mob in a dungeon felt like a mini boss, and I would love to see more of that, at least in the expert dungeons. Sure it would make speed runs extinct, then again just double the tomes each expert gives and I'm sure you'd please both parties.

[saber_alter]

i would prefer the dungeons be made via procedural generation with random encounters, so that no run is the same.

[Fevelle]

i would prefer the dungeons be made via procedural generation with random encounters, so that no run is the same.

This. We can dream right?

[Kaiser-Ace]

I hate to be the harbinger of the "good ol' days" but in FFXI every mob in a dungeon felt like a mini boss, and I would love to see more of that, at least in the expert dungeons. Sure it would make speed runs extinct, then again just double the tomes each expert gives and I'm sure you'd please both parties.

At the same time, you got 1 decent attack every several minutes, leveling was hard to impossible, and the game was made specifically so soloplay was impossible with out mercilessly painful deaths.

If you had dammage output and survivability like in FF14 back in FF11 how would the difficulty compair?

[Callback]

i would prefer the dungeons be made via procedural generation with random encounters, so that no run is the same.

Current dungeons use static layouts and couldn't be adapted to this. You want a tile-based system for future dungeons. While that would make the expert roulette less repetitive, it doesn't really solve the problem.

The problem is this game's combat system. Trash can be fun in other games. Even static dungeon trash can be a TON of fun when the combat system is good and allows actual interaction with them. It creates a good dynamic when contrasted with the bosses which need to be fought in very different ways compared to normal mobs. In XIV bosses and mobs behave the same, with the only difference being bosses getting more health and special attacks. Everything in this game is built out of super armor: players, mobs, bosses, everything. Adding to that, nearly everything we can do is point-and-click, single target attacks have no splash (bosses sometimes do but I mean players). All of the interaction has been sucked out of the experience. Which is fine in a single player game where you need to rely on strategy to work around the inevitable punch to the grill the boss is going to do, and manage an entire party to do so, but in an MMO where you control only one single character, you're just standing there pushing buttons. Bosses in this game dress it up, and hide the boring combat behind a bunch of mechanics (sometimes. Often not much), but trash leaves it out in the open. They hit you right in the face with the reality of how boring the combat really is.

[Risvertasashi]

This is actually one thing I really loved about TSW. Very little trash, mostly boss fights. Sometimes with the evil guy taunting you as you work your way through the dungeon to him.

i would prefer the dungeons be made via procedural generation with random encounters, so that no run is the same.

SE's philosophy is for very high controlled content/experience that is exactly repeatable. Even if they changed this philosophy I doubt the engine and game they've built could support it. Here's to hoping Starbound hits 1.0 in 2016?

[Kaurie]

Personally, I'd hate dungeons if they were simply bosses. Void Ark is pretty damn boring and gives no sense of exploration or adventure.

I'd rather they add various ways of doing dungeons, like:


- Have a dungeon designed for two teams to queue in and 'race' to the ending down separate paths
- Have a maze where you and 3 others separate out and race to the ending (yes I like races! - but not Chocobo racing :\)
- Have a dungeon where you are stationary on a moving platform and fending off waves of enemies (like on a train, with baddies climbing up the sides)
- Have a dungeon that encourages stealth by creating distractions
- Have a dungeon with multiple paths where one is mostly very hard bosses but is quick to finish, another is slow and long with lots of trash but more tomestones and one which is the medium/normal/default option.
- Make "trash" not "trash" by actually giving them meaningful drops (crafting materials, random eq drops, more gil etc)


However, if they started making every dungeon just boss encounters, I feel I may get quite bored.