I Hate Trash

[Kaurie]

6 dungeons with the same rewards? I'd be just as bored as I am now with two and you'd get people all wanting to run one or two specific dungeons for the sake of beating them faster.

One person being bored shouldn't be reason to not do something if other people would enjoy it. For example, I find crafting boring, but I do not advocate they abolish the crafting system.

Some people wanting to run one or two specific dungeons because they are faster shouldn't be reason to not have other dungeons. Otherwise, there would be no point in adding new dungeons all together. We may as well have Sastasha normal mode unsynced as our only dungeon with the same rewards as our max tier dungeon, that way we can finish it faster.

Adding more options decreases the rate at which people will become bored, as the rate at which a person becomes bored is correlated to the number of times they redo the same thing.

Reality is: 99% of all players just want linear, straight up Content.
If Diadem was a test, if multipath Dungeons would be a thing, the answer at SE HQ will be...no!

Diadem failing has nothing to do with adding multiple paths, and I hope that is not the conclusion SE has come from it. It was just a horribly executed idea, and it's failures come from the sum of many things and not the design of one element. Further, I'd hardly say that the Diadem offers any paths, nevermind multiple paths.

[Cheraa]

Right, Diadem don't offers any paths. It is completly open. And what does the playerbase? Just camp one Spot of the complete zone. The MMO Comunity will always move the easiest way. And there will always be one. Be it easier Trash, ways to ignore some trash, easier bosses and so on.

And the idea behind Diadem is well executed. It is, that the parties are spread around the isles and just gather for Star Ranks. The playerbase made it a brainless zergfest and just showed that multiple path Dungeons would just be wasted development time.

[Kaurie]

I completely disagree on both regards. Diadem is horribly executed, it was my first thought when there and I still hold that. It's an 'exploratory mission' that doesn't encourage exploration in the slightest. They could simply not having a bunch of floating islands, so you're encouraged to not just skip everything and fly to one spot. They could have it that mobs don't just respawn over and over in 1 location and that killing easier guys loads higher level guys. etc etc.. It is just horribly executed and most people widely agree on this.

As for people choosing the shortest path being an argument for not adding variation, well I can see your point but I don't think it's very good reasoning. People ultimately play to have fun, so I don't think designing content to be fun is wasted development time. I think designing content to be the lowest common denominator is. If it's better for a dungeon to be short so you can get tomes faster, then it's better for there to be no dungeon at all and tomes to automatically fill to max every second. It's not though, and that is because core game play is actually an important element. What needs to be done is the design and development team needs to consider and balance what they add, so that there is not a significant difference.

For example, there are differences in speeds between the various dungeons we have. That said, there is a much bigger difference in speeds due to group composition and skill level. Two months ago, I'd do Neverreap in anywhere from 14 minutes to 45 minutes based on my group (and if I chose to bring my AoE SMN or my SCH for faster queues etc). The fastest I've personally run both Neverreap and Fractals is actually the same (14 minutes), even though I believe most people consider Fractals faster. Beyond that, most people I meet seem to find runs with me to be quite fast even when I am finding it slow.

In my opinion, it feels like you think I am saying that adding variation = longer runs, when that is simply not the case. I don't think a run needs to be longer or shorter in order to vary from the current. I just would like to not have to do the exact same thing over and over. More importantly, I'd like the Dev team to take risks and try things new. Diadem is a great example; however, I'd say that the reason for it's failure is they did not take a big enough risk and tried to keep it to what they know while trying something new. In other words, they only dipped their toes in the water instead of jumping straight in.

[Callback]

Yes they are, because players are mostly just stupid.
Look at the 1.x FF 14 Dungeons, where you had multiple paths. What happend? Players just run the fastest route.
Look at the 3.1 Diadem, a wide open area to Explore...meanwhile all players are gathering at one isle.

Reality is: 99% of all players just want linear, straight up Content.
If Diadem was a test, if multipath Dungeons would be a thing, the answer at SE HQ will be...no!

That doesn't mean players want linear content. It means they want to get that content over with as quickly as efficiently as possible because the content itself is NOT FUN. Players are using it as a means to an end. The content itself is in no way enjoyable, so why waste your time taking longer than necessary?

[ExiaQuanta]

make dungeons any harder/random, than you have yourself another Steps of Faith chaos huehuehue

[RuleofThree]

I wish they would spoon feed us xp and while we do nothing at all. Just pay them 14.99 and get all our levels and gear when we log on. Never have to work for a thing.

[Callback]

I wish they would spoon feed us xp and while we do nothing at all. Just pay them 14.99 and get all our levels and gear when we log on. Never have to work for a thing.

I ask them to turn dungeons into a full boss rush to make them a fun challenge instead of a brainless slog, and somehow you get "spoonfed" out of that?

[Soraki-Muppe]

Simply opening up the dungeons will not change anything, and multiple paths will only result in people choosing the one with least resistance, as is human to do. What is needed beside that is a reason for players to take the long way around, a reason to not skip mobs, a reason to not take the shortest and fastest way through the dungeon.
Creating a dungeon which forces people to do time consuming things is doomed to fail as none like to be forced to do something they deem boring in a game, instead they need to compel us to do these things by making them interesting and challanging to do, adding things like hidden secrets, traps, objectives to complete, perhaps an npc which sells special items that has to be freed, or even a hidden boss sitting on a pile of loot from which all players get a piece of material. The list of possible things is longer but it all would mean the same thing, that SE needs to start thinking outside their box, since as it is now all new dungeons are same shit different texture and boss mechanics.

[RuleofThree]

I do, actually. To break down the previous poster's idea:

Hidden secrets - Wouldn't matter. People will just ignore and get to the end. Speedrunning is king.
Traps - Might work for people geared for the dungeon, but those with the equipment will just power through it.
Objectives to complete - Are in the game now, are just powered through.
NPC that sells shit - People won't care after their first few runs. Will ignore it. Already done with optional chests. No one wants 'em, even if it has potential to drop loot. I.E chest next to sleeping dragon in the aery.
Hidden Boss - Only example I know of this is the biast in Halatali...which is ignored. Will likely follow same trend if repeated.

People don't want to do anything, they want their reward, and they want it as fast as humanly possible with no effort. Even if they did make every single fight a miniboss, people would find a way to power it down as fast as possible, and then complain about how the mini-bosses are trash mobs.