about the ToS and parsing

[Ashkendor]

And that is exactly the reason why i object violently to any kind of parser. I call this harassement!

Funny, I think someone mashing one button over and over while watching Netflix is harassment. It's one thing if you see a DPS is new or undergeared or what have you. It's quite another when they're tooling around in i200 gear and doing 350 dps.

[Caitlinzulu]

And what level dps will be considered too low? where do we draw the line? Everyone keeps using the ridiculously low number of 350dps or even lower, but what if if you're doing like 700 when an ace player is can do 1000, (same gear) should he be kicked from Arboretum to use an example?
Also every idiot can run a parser, so do they understand that every class does different damage? Do they take gear into account. You cant even compare the numbers between players unless they have the same class and similar gear.

[Chayala]

You're entirely right Cait. Because everyone should pick up the slack when someone else can't do their job. Especially for DPS who can't ever be proven to be wrong. "YOU CAN'T KNOW MY DPS!" I mean, it's not like tanks and healers are held accountable for rotating defensive cooldowns or keeping people alive right? OH right. They are. And then they're pushed to DPS harder ontop of it while DPS demand that nobody see how low their numbers are.

[Arrak]

And what level dps will be considered too low? where do we draw the line? Everyone keeps using the ridiculously low number of 350dps or even lower, but what if if you're doing like 700 when an ace player is can do 1000, (same gear) should he be kicked from Arboretum to use an example?
Also every idiot can run a parser, so do they understand that every class does different damage? Do they take gear into account. You cant even compare the numbers between players unless they have the same class and similar gear.

FFlogs.com and comparing yourself on fights to other people. It's a good benchmark where you should be at and shows you the percentile you're in for your class. That being said, anyone complaining about dps in an expert when you aren't wiping is a douche and doesn't represent the people who want to see their dps to actually improve themselves and others.

[SnugglesD]

And what level dps will be considered too low? where do we draw the line? Everyone keeps using the ridiculously low number of 350dps or even lower, but what if if you're doing like 700 when an ace player is can do 1000, (same gear) should he be kicked from Arboretum to use an example?
Also every idiot can run a parser, so do they understand that every class does different damage? Do they take gear into account. You cant even compare the numbers between players unless they have the same class and similar gear.

No one is parsing Arboretum. No one cares. People parse clear/farm parties and raids. If you're in a group where you're expected to be able to clear something and don't perform to the level clearly stated in the PF, you deserve to be kicked. Its rude to expect to be carried.

And if someone performs within 75% of a jobs capabilities in anything that's not savage, no one is going to kick you.

[Caitlinzulu]

And yet i had one alex normal farm party a while ago. The run went fine we cleared with no wipes no deaths and yet after the run the partyleader kicked me and the other healer for not doing enough dps, after i kept asking why the kick he admitted it. I can only guess the run took a few minutes too long for his taste. Yes a farm party but not an ex or savage one, you'll never see me in one of those.

[KaijinRhada]

And so it begins, the argument of parser VS no parser. ~.~

Personally, I would draw the line at people doing pre-HW numbers in content. I don't need people to play straight up like the best pro that ever walked on the planet, I just want people to play with a level of competency that doesn't suggest they're rolling their face on a keyboard, and that really doesn't take much nor do I see people doing less than that as the norm.

I don't recall ever having a situation where low DPS was so appalling that a kick happened. While I'm certain it does happen, I personally haven't run into such a situation and I DF a lot. Those that are jerks now are going to be jerks regardless, but I can say that quite a few people are parsing and not being dickholes about it. The poster above illustrated in their account of a run on how not to act with a DPS meter, and I am sorry that has happened to them as it's a shitty situation to experience.

The unfortunate thing is that negative experiences will often stick out more than positive ones. While we remember the good, the bad stands out more in the fore of our memory.


As for the OP, parsers are in a don't ask-don't tell kind of deal.

[Caitlinzulu]

The majority of the current parser users are propably decent responsible users. Its only when they relax tos and put a party parser in the game. In that case any idiot/a'hole will have access to one and will make uninformed kicks, thats what i'm affraid of.
A personal parser that gives only your own dps could help the players looking for self improvement.
I know several of my fc members do use parsers but they never talk about them.

I'm a crafter not a fighter

[Ashkendor]

The majority of the current parser users are propably decent responsible users. Its only when they relax tos and put a party parser in the game. In that case any idiot/a'hole will have access to one and will make uninformed kicks, thats what i'm affraid of.
A personal parser that gives only your own dps could help the players looking for self improvement.
I know several of my fc members do use parsers but they never talk about them.

I'm a crafter not a fighter

That already happens now though, the only difference being that most people don't say anything about their reasons why they're kicking for fear of being reported. The conversation about the DPS numbers being low takes place in voice chat or FC chat or linkshell, and then someone just gets booted or the party disbands and reforms without them. So they're still getting kicked and as of right now they have no idea why they're being removed. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but idiots and assholes can already install and utilize third party programs like parsers just as easily as people that actually know how to use the tool for its intended purpose.

A few people in my static parse, partly for their own reference and partly to help out other people in the raid. None of them will bring up DPS numbers in non-raid content unless it's to the point where we simply can't clear due to low DPS. Even miserably slow dungeons are suffered through in silence (at least as far as party chat is concerned) as long as we're actually getting through it. With that said, we've had to carry some pretty terrible DPS and quite honestly I think it's completely unfair. You wouldn't keep a tank that wasn't holding hate and you wouldn't keep a healer that couldn't keep people alive, so why should you keep a DPS that's hitting a couple of random keys or spamming the same 1 2 3 combo over and over again while playing Angry Birds on their phone?

[Vasala]

The sad part is some people will just look at numbers and judge without looking at the whole picture. Heh, I was a victim of that recently. It was Pharos Sirius Hard ^^ so not even a place someone should be looking at numbers. Things were not dying slowly and no wipes were occurring. I got accused of doing less dps than the other bard in the group right after the second boss. I did not say anything back since I had no intention of getting into an argument. The thing this person was not looking at is what I was doing in the boss fight. I was the one grabbing the add and dragging it to the cracks to plug the gas leaks. Apparently my not saying anything in my defense made this person and his friend kick me right before the last boss. This is the sort of behavior that people should not be doing with parsers regardless of if they are official or not. Following mechanics is important in fights also ^^.