Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

[Ryel]

Self awareness and raid awareness are required skills for raiding. The discussing of parsers outside of a raid environment makes no sense. We assume that anyone who would benefit from using a parser has the minimum requirements. Adding a parser to the game will not add any more people that would not have raided otherwise. Anyone who would use a parser for a raid thus already knows how to play their class, had self awareness and raid awareness. There simply isn't a such thing as a person (i.e. who raids) who isn't aware that they are making mistakes. If they do, then they do not belong in a group which depends on them to do their job.

I disagree with the majority of this statement even if I'm aware of what you're trying to say.

Assuming anything about the skill level of the playerbase let alone anyone who actually raids is a recipe for disaster, it also discounts what motivates and helps various players learn.

This has been stated before but it might come as a surprise to you that there are many players who simply are unaware of how well they are or aren't performing and this goes both ways. There are plenty of players who lack the confidence to enter a raid because they think they are bad only to discover otherwise when shown tangible feedback (like a parse result) that they are better than they think they are and the results give them the confidence to attempt finding a raid group.

It has to start somewhere.

Like in a thread where a Ps4 player is asking for a personal parser so that they can improve.

Also I don't think it's ever been stated that adding a parser is suddenly going to add tons of capable players to the raid scene, but it might change the minds of a few that are on the fence, when they see their results. Likewise it might encourage others to practice a bit more if they find out they aren't as good as they think they are.

That aside...
It will help you if you actually quote the proverb correctly. It's not "practice makes perfect". It's "practice makes permanent". There also is no raid in the game that doesn't operate on a script. That means that there will be no variation from fight to fight aside from who gets targeted by AOEs or mechanics or spawn location of adds or mechanics. And even those are not random, just chosen out of a possible set of configurations (such as laser positions, knight positions, add positions in AS3). When you go into a fight recognizing that it a dummy until mechanics appear, then you will realize that you will perform the same rotation as you do on the dummy, or at least, that is the goal.

No, I'm pretty sure i quoted it correctly:

Practice (learning method)

language; like many other things evolves with time, if you only go by the origin of an idiom you are going to be left behind when it comes to modern day vernacular.

On to the point however, while the script of a fight itself doesn't change the actions of the players in the fight may. This has been illustrated by more than a few posters when it comes to things like phase pushes etc.

I don't think it's necessary for me to touch on this again when many others have already done so sufficiently.

Now instead of going off topic with talks about space shuttles (I gave the example as a proof of concept for physics, not sure why it diverged) I'll one again make a few points clear. A parser will not tell you what you are doing wrong. A parser will not tell you why your dps is different from the next guy's. Do you honestly think that top groups think that when they went to AS3 the first week that there was something wrong with their rotations and if they just try stuff out side of the optimal rotation they will get higher dps? No. They knew that they were already doing optimal rotations and didn't meet the dps check. So they needed gear. No coincidence that there were no clears of AS3 until people could buy Esoteric weapons.

But here's the surprise. They didn't need the parser to tell them they weren't passing the dps check. The only use of the parser in their fights was just to check if they were missing (dubious, you can see if you are missing by looking at the screen). After they passed the accuracy cap, then they treat every fight like a dummy, where you pause to do mechanics. Parsers aren't meant to be used by people going into dungeons, or trials, or anything of that nature. Parser only have a place in raids, where people of self awareness, who already know the fundamentals of the game, need to know the accuracy caps of fights. Then they use the data to tell others, "hey here's the cap and here's our clear time and raid dps".

And no, you don't need a parser to determine the raid dps required to pass fights. You just divide the Boss's HP (summed with add's HP) by the enrage time (or mechanic timer). Then, before you even go in the fight, you have your dummy DPS for your party and will know if you will pass the fight based on your gear. And fight's aren't tuned with healer DPS so that's all extra.

It's almost as if a parser were a tool that displays data and feedback that can be used and interpreted in various ways for evaluation based on the needs and the skill level of the group using it, additionally it's almost as if different groups have various ways of approaching and learning content perhaps based on the fact that there are various players with differing ability levels, motivations, and schools of thought.

I would not compare the practices and methodology of a world first raid group to a fresh group of new raiders starting right now that needs to use youtube guides, spreadsheets, and power point presentations as they learn and attempt raid content. I also use the term "need" loosely as the group is likely capable of learning and completing the fight without those aids but if they choose to use them and find a benefit in doing so it's not really the place of myself or anyone else to tell them otherwise.

If it works for them, it works for them much like the data a party receives and interprets from a parser.

It's like saying just because you can do the math by hand means that nobody ever should have to use a calculator, it just doesn't follow.

There aren't any mechanics in the current raid tier which require you do do anything except move or attack. So to maximize your dps for every encounter, you just have to move when you need to (for movement mechanics) and attack nearly 100% of the time. If you are doing this, then there's nothing a parser can do to help you because you are already doing the maximum capabilities of the class. If you are not, then parser will not help you either. You already know what you need to do before reading how poorly you did. If each player just plays each fight like they are racing for world first clears, then you will realize that each player will always do the maximum possible.

On the other hand, there are people who claim the parser can help with rotations. Knowing how to play your class is the minimum requirement to raid. There is no one raiding who doesn't know their optimal rotation. The parser is not for this group of people. You don't learn your optimal rotation by using a parser either. You either do the work yourself or read someone else's work for "highest mathematically possible PPS rotation". Then you whack a dummy to see if you can do it. If you realize you are making mistakes, then you fix them. If you can't do it (physically), then you should evaluate yourself and decide whether you should play in a group environment. And in both cases, you didn't need a parser.

I'm pro-parser btw, but I don't support reasons that are completely wrong.

This is entirely your opinion, perhaps you do not operate on some of these concepts but this does not mean others do not.

The forums (DPS subform in particular) are riddled with players asking how they can perform better in content or looking at their results and noting areas where they can improve.

If you're pro parser like you say, then why do you care about the reasons that someone wants it?

If a group of players is able to take parse data and use it for evaluation and improvement, not you or anyone else can claim that their reasons or methodology are wrong if it provides favorable results. It may mean that they were using it in a way you don't believe it was intended but if it makes positive change across the board then your objections are irrelevant.

Also I'm not entirely sure if you're trying to argue this in circles intentionally or not as many of the points you've raised have been answered already by many other posters throughout both this thread and the 80 page one in the DPS subforum.

Either way I doubt there's much more that can be said on the subject that hasn't been said countless times already, if you still disagree at this point I'm not sure I'm the right person to properly explain otherwise.