The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why.

[MagiusNecros]

If Thunder 2 gets no love I must be the only BLM that actively uses it for DoT spread on opening pulls. If anything I don't use Thunder 1.

Yeah Freeze is kinda bad. The one chance to add a frozen staus effect for players and they muck it up with a bind that won't work in the endgame content.

[Iagainsti]

If Thunder 2 gets no love I must be the only BLM that actively uses it for DoT spread on opening pulls. If anything I don't use Thunder 1.

Black mage is not my main; I did just level it for PvP, I was always under the assumption Thunder I was a better spreader due to cheaper mp cost/faster cast time. Again, just an alt, so what do I know. I'll have to try it in a trial roulette or something.

Revised:
Blk Mage- Thunder I gets no love

[Freyyy]

Well it's in the tank forums so I'm pretty sure the thread is intended to be only about tank abilities but if we have to add other jobs, I think that the two most useless skills of all times both belong to the MNK and are One Ilm Punch and Haymaker. Tho BLMs do have their load of useless skills too (Freeze, Thunder I or II, Lethargy which is even more situationnal than Clemency or Cover).

[Jpec07]

WTF. When you DA C&S you gain 350 potency (from 100 to 450), when you DA SE you gain 140 potency (from 260 to 400). C&S is oGCD. And honestly, you shouldn't have to choose between DA SE and DA C&S if you're playing properly. You should have enough MP to DA every time C&S is available while rotating DA SE and Delirium and using Dark Passenger on CD. C&S without DA becomes more efficient only during huge AoE pulls; when the extra 884MP you get + the 1768MP you didn't spend makes you able to use Abyssal Drain 2-3 more times.

If DPS is the only thing you're worried about, sure, but in practice and survival/turtle tanking, I've found that C&S is more valuable for its mana restoration than the mitigation-less 450-potency damage you get out of it. Then again, I main a PLD, so perhaps I just need more practice at mana management on DRK (I usually try to keep ~50% MP at all times in case of emergency).

*switches to PLD and pops Hallowed Ground to weather the incoming storm of "UR A BAD DRK"*

[Freyyy]

If DPS is the only thing you're worried about, sure, but in practice and survival/turtle tanking,

Survival/turtle tanking isn't a thing in FFXIV. And even so, while the self-healing from a DA SE is very nice, it's only available while in Grit and you ANYWAY shouldn't have to choose between DA C&S and DA SE. And it has nothing to do with only worrying about DPS. When you gotta be turtle, you have plenty of defensive cooldowns and a tanking stance to use, it doesn't interfere with the usage of DA C&S at any time. I'll also add that with a good amount of STR, a DA C&S can restore a pretty good amount of HP when coupled with Bloodbath, especially if you get a crit. Dealing more damage doesn't prevent you from being tanky, and doesn't makes you a "tank who only worries about DPS" either. Dealing more damage brings a lot of benefits other than moar deeps as a tank.

[Syzygian]

If there is one Warrior action that falls under this list, it's Raw Intuition, not because it doesn't get used so much as it gets used as often as it's up for a Wrath Stack more so than the actual action's ability(pfft Parry xD)

Wat? I get that RI gets used for stacks when it matters, but how is it bad as a defensive cooldown? Its guaranteed Parrying for 20s, that's a lot of mitigation provided you don't let the boss hit your ass which no tank should be doing anyway...

"pfft Parry xD" Jabs at parry aren't funny, clever, or original. I dunno why everyone cracks little joke-y insults at it as if they're the first person to communicate the fact that it isn't all that great of a stat, and I'm further perplexed at your doing so in the one context where Parry is unequivocally good (Raw Intuition)...

incorrect

correct

Take it from people that main the job. The only time a DRK drops a raw-dogged C&S during single-target DPS is when they fucked up. I've done it, and I'm the first to say that it was a fuck-up; either a fat-fingering, or a necessary measure due to mismanaging/being overzealous with DA/MP earlier in the fight.

If its a matter of MP and C&S causing you to miss out on DP or DA SE, consider this burst I've been using while farming thordan on the big meteor (order of abilities affected by previous usage/recast):

Salted Earth <Scourge> DA + Blood Weapon <Hard Slash> Plunge <Syphon> Low Blow <Souleater> DA <Hardslash> C&S + DP <Syphon> DA <Souleater> Sole Survivor - Meteor Dead

Two DA Souleater rotations with a DA Carve and DP woven in between. I leave that meteor between 5K and full MP.

Its not about turtle tanking or dps tanking, its about resource management, pls l2doit.

[Jpec07]

I like how you're ignoring the half of my post that says "maybe I need to get better."

But at the same time, BB+Crit+DA+C&S is a remarkably specific circumstance to make it comparable in terms of mitigation (and even then, with those levels of Str, Grit+DA+SE will always be better for mitigation). And it's nice to say "you should never have to choose," but I find myself often having to choose. And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other DRKs frequently face that choice, as well. And in my mind, and likely in theirs as well, the MP gain is more valuable than the MP loss to get 450 potency that contributes very little to their ability to mitigate.

And "turtle tanking" is ABSOLUTELY a thing in FFXIV. Three fights at cap that don't reward it don't mean it somehow suddenly isn't viable or preferable for the vast majority of content in the game.

[Iagainsti]

Wat? I get that RI gets used for stacks when it matters, but how is it bad as a defensive cooldown? Its guaranteed Parrying for 20s, that's a lot of mitigation provided you don't let the boss hit your ass which no tank should be doing anyway...

"pfft Parry xD" Jabs at parry aren't funny, clever, or original. I dunno why everyone cracks little joke-y insults at it as if they're the first person to communicate the fact that it isn't all that great of a stat, and I'm further perplexed at your doing so in the one context where Parry is unequivocally good (Raw Intuition)...

Seriously though; "RI is up! I don't have to heal as much" said no healer ever. I have RI and Awareness macro'd together like I should, but it really amounts to overhealing, so yes; it is nothing more than a glorified stack builder.

[Februs]

Paladin guide to drk cooldown:

Dark Rampart = Rampart
Dark Sentinel = Sentinel
Dark Holmgang = Hallowed Ground
Dark Dance = Fish for Reprisal when you want it; just make sure you use it
(DA)Dark Mind = "If I was a paladin I'd have to use Hallowed Ground here" Top priority move for magic stuff since it gives you ridiculous freedom with dark rampart and dark sentinel.
Everything else is crossclass. Don't forget to Blind/DADA when tanking dodge-able monsters (dungeon trash, A4S adds, probably A2S)

This is pretty well exactly how I translated it in Pld terms lol. Like I said, figuring out which moves are good together and how to use them isn't the problem... my actual problem is fitting them all into easily accessible spaces on my hotbar, while keeping up all of the OGCD moves so that I can use them on CD. I know there will be people out there who disagree with me, but compared to the other 2 Tanks Drk has been by far the most challenging for me to set up efficiently on my Ps4 hotbar because of all the damn OGCD moves. I find there are so many things that I want to keep an eye on at all times that I don't have enough space to work with as I would like.

[Februs]

Well it's in the tank forums so I'm pretty sure the thread is intended to be only about tank abilities but if we have to add other jobs, I think that the two most useless skills of all times both belong to the MNK and are One Ilm Punch and Haymaker. Tho BLMs do have their load of useless skills too (Freeze, Thunder I or II, Lethargy which is even more situationnal than Clemency or Cover).

I'm starting to wonder if I should have posted a 2nd and 3rd version of this exact thread in the Dps / Healer Forums. I wasn't expecting to get discussions about moves outside of the Tanking sphere. It's interesting, for sure, but it's caught me off guard a little.