Hillarity.

[Whiteroom]

There are no retrictions even remotely similar to how bad gating Diadem to 1 ilvl 210 piece of gear per week would be. Because 1 ilvl 210 piece per week with the RNG in Diadem does not equal weeks or even months of grind, it equals years of grind.

Of course it depends on the effective chance of obtaining a good, ilvl 210 piece of gear that qualifies as BiS. If the cumulative effect of all the RNG, and rolling on gear leaves you with more than a 1% chance of getting something good each time, I will be quite surprised.

It would only equal years of grind if you rolled on every piece that dropped. If you just took the best of each week, it would only take 10 or so weeks. But you are also gearing up via eso, so really, gear is everywhere. Lets face it, with how weak secondaries are, the only people that really need the best in slot are the ones whos static are just barely failing the raids right now.

The only bad thing I really see with being loot locked in there is that people would drop as soon as they got their piece, an with no way to replenish your ranks, well then the rest of the team is screwed.

[zosia]

There are no retrictions even remotely similar to how bad gating Diadem to 1 ilvl 210 piece of gear per week would be. Because 1 ilvl 210 piece per week with the RNG in Diadem does not equal weeks or even months of grind, it equals years of grind.

Of course it depends on the effective chance of obtaining a good, ilvl 210 piece of gear that qualifies as BiS. If the cumulative effect of all the RNG, and rolling on gear leaves you with more than a 1% chance of getting something good each time, I will be quite surprised.

Don't need to make diadem drop a single piece of 210 per run, SE could just make it a personal lockout where you can only win one 210 per week.

[Kosmos992k]

Don't need to make diadem drop a single piece of 210 per run, SE could just make it a personal lockout where you can only win one 210 per week.

Yes, I understood that. Statistically, with the very low chance that a piece of gear that drops happens to be BiS for it's associated job, and you are sharing rolls with 7 others, a 1 piece per week lockout imposes a very low chance of getting BiS ilvl 210 gear of any kind. If the chance of a good piece dropping is 1%, which is high I think, each run nets you a 1% chance, each run, of something good dropping. If you run diadem 24/7 you can get 12 runs a day, or 84 a week, with a 1% chance of something good dropping, there is a 58% chance that over 84 runs 'something' good will drop for someone.

You have a 1 in 8 chance of getting that, now you're down to 7% This all assumes that the piece is one you can actually use, clearly that's not always the case, and that 7% is reduced further still, and of course with a weekly lockout should you roll or not? What if nothing has come up, and the weekly reset is near, so you take whatever's there, further reducing your chance of something good that actually works for your job and you need. That's assuming you do nothing else 24/7, lets say you play 3-4 hours a day, every day, you might fit in 10 runs in a week, that base chance that was 58% drops to 10% which then drops further and further based on the other factors involved.

I won't play with the numbers further, but I hope you can see that applying a strict limit and weekly lockout would pretty much destroy Diadem.

It would only equal years of grind if you rolled on every piece that dropped. If you just took the best of each week, it would only take 10 or so weeks.

No, you are making a huge assumption that a) something good drops every run, and b) that you'll get one suitable for you every week. Both assumptions are false.

[Whiteroom]

No, you are making a huge assumption that a) something good drops every run, and b) that you'll get one suitable for you every week. Both assumptions are false.

Its not a huge assumption at all, especially about the every run thing, I didn't even hint at every run. How is one a week not entirely fair and on par with every other method? And why do you even need the bis one. An average one is more than enough for pretty much everyone, and like I said, you get your other 210s from eso as well. I can promise that the majority of the players out there won't be able to tell the difference from the average 210 and the BIS.

Besides, whats going to destroy the diadem is the incredibly boring way they set it up.

[Kosmos992k]

Its not a huge assumption at all, especially about the every run thing, I didn't even hint at every run. How is one a week not entirely fair and on par with every other method? And why do you even need the bis one. An average one is more than enough for pretty much everyone, and like I said, you get your other 210s from eso as well. I can promise that the majority of the players out there won't be able to tell the difference from the average 210 and the BIS.

Besides, whats going to destroy the diadem is the incredibly boring way they set it up.

The original statement was 1 ilvl 210 piece per week as a lockout, to prevent people from gearing up very quickly with better gear than Alex Savage, essentially best in slot gear, so that was the starting point. I simply wanted to point out, as I have done, that suck a lockout would destroy Diadem as content because it isveryheavily RNG based with very low chancesof good and useful ilvl210 gear dropping. Statistically speaking, a 1 piece a week lockout would making Diadem an unsustainable source of gear. Not only that, but it would not significantly alter the chances of getting good gear, but it would prevent anyone from either turning in the 'junk' gear for seals, or gearing their retainer - since ilvl is the only thing that matters to retainers.

As far as I am aware, good ilvl210 gear is far from common, and anyone gearing up through Diadem has been extremely fortunate. Given the actual rarity of good gear, it seems illogical to me that raiders would panic that casuals might gear easily using Diadem. Statistically speaking, that's justnotgoing to happen outside of a few very fortunate individuals. Pushing for such a lockout in the face of that reality makes it look like the reason for requesting the lockout is solely about keeping casual players locked out of a wayto catch up with gear - in a catch up patch. I have to wonder why anyone would be that insecure about other players having access to a grindy, RNG based method to assist in catch up.

Once again the specter of raiders insecure about casual players having good gear rears it's ugly head.

[zosia]

The original statement was 1 ilvl 210 piece per week as a lockout, to prevent people from gearing up very quickly with better gear than Alex Savage, essentially best in slot gear, so that was the starting point. I simply wantedto point out, as I have done, that suck a lockout would destroy Diadem as content because it isveryheavily RNG based with very low chancesof good and useful ilvl210 gear dropping. Statistically speaking, a 1 piece a week lockout would making Diadem an unsustainable source of gear. Not only that, but it would not significantly alter the chances of getting good gear, but it would prevent anyone from either turning in the 'junk' gear for seals, or gearing their retainer - since ilvl is the only thing that matters to retainers.

As far as I am aware, good ilvl210 gear is far from common, and anyone gearing up through Diadem has been extremely fortunate. Given the actual rarity of good gear, it seems illogical to me that raiders would panic that casuals might gear easily using Diadem. Statistically speaking, that's justnotgoing to happen outside of a few very fortunate individuals. Pushing for such a lockout in the face of that reality makes it look like the reason for requesting the lockout is solely about keeping casual players locked out of a wayto catch up with gear - in a catch up patch. I have to wonder why anyone would be that insecure about other players having access to a grindy, RNG based method to assist in catch up.

Once again the specter of raiders insecure about casual players having good gear rears it's ugly head.

Once again, the whole point eludes you. We care about the Bis factor, not so much the rate. If Diadem gear HAS to be the best gear in the game then you should only get one piece per week. If it was at the same level as other 210 gear, people would not care as much.

If you can only win one piece a week, that will incentives ppl to do hardmode. Also, if you can only win one piece a week, people are not going to roll on every 210 that drops, so you will have much less competition over a piece that is good for your class. You don't care for reward schedules at all. Why not just advocate for standing in foundation and pressing 1, 2, 3 until the mog mail delivers a bis 210 piece? That is essentially what you are already defending.

[Kosmos992k]

Once again, the whole point eludes you. We care about the Bis factor, not so much the rate. If Diadem gear HAS to be the best gear in the game then you should only get one piece per week.

You must be aware of something no one else is if you think that ilvl210 gear dropping in Diadem is the best in the game. The point has not eluded me at all, I just think you are maasively inflating the fears about gear coming from Diadem

That was the point about RNG and rarity. If your complaint is that DIADEM gear is the best in the game, then you need to quantify the *actual* frequency with which that kind of gear drops. All the information I have seen says that it's quite rare on an individual basis. Applying a lockout as suggested utterly ignores the actual rarity of those items in favor of unfounded fears about gearing. This honestly feels to melike raiders being all upset because it's possible, however remote that possibility is, for aplayer to grind out great gear in Diadem.

The point I am making is that based on the rarity of the gear and the RNG basus for it's stats, the actual chances of just the right gear dropping for one player over a periodof a few weeks is very slight. Not imposdible, so there will be very fortunate people. But realistically it's very, very, very unlikely that any significant number of players will gather a set of ilvl 210 gear with exactly the right stats. Putting a severelockoutinplace because less than one tenth of a percent of all players might somehow obtain acomplete ilvl 210 BiS gear set is just ridiculous.

Why not just advocate for standing in foundation and pressing 1, 2, 3 until the mog mail delivers a bis 210 piece? That is essentially what you are already defending.

LOL! Seriously? You take that from my posts? I've advocated nothing of the sort. Instead of indulging in hyperbole, why not talk abpunt the point being made about the actual rarity of truly good gear drops that are ilvl 210 in Diadem. The actual experience of my FC members simply doesn't support the idea that Diadem is problematically handing out the best gear in the game for no effort, or at all.

[zosia]

You must be aware of something no one else is if you think that ilvl210 gear dropping in Diadem is the best in the game.

It is, you can get more secondary stats on diadem 210 gear than you can get on other 210 pieces, how do you not know this? Not to mention favorable itemization is a huge thing to consider (acc on healer gear, avoiding undesirable secondary stats).

I guess this is what happens when you debate with someone who does not actually do the content.

[Kosmos992k]

It is, you can get more secondary stats on diadem 210 gear than you can get on other 210 pieces, how do you not know this?

I know that. I've never said it wasn't so. BUT, every stat is assigned via a double RNG, one to select stats and on to select the value. How common are BiS ilvl210 pieces in Diadem? How common are truly useful pieces? How common are pieces that have the right stats (regardless of value)? Are you arguing that these are common drops, or invoking fears because of something that has a less than 1% chance of happening?

That is the point your are not willing to look at, the *actual* rarity of that kind of drop. Simply pointing out that it's possible for a great piece of gear to appear isn't a valid argument for slamming a hard gate on the content. I could win the lottery tomorrow and quit, does that mean my employer should proactively replace me? Of course not because the chance of it happening is very, very small.

You appear to me to be ignoring that simple fact, the gear you are talking about is very, very rare.

[zosia]

You appear to me to be ignoring that simple fact, the gear you are talking about is very, very rare.

And it does not matter when the casual players no life it and spend all day in diadem. You're ignoring the fact that all the gear rewards in all the other content is invalidated by diadem.