The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[rappa]

In Coil, fights were tuned based almost solely on DPS from DPS classes. Some minor tank DPS was thrown in and literally 0 DPS was expected by healers by design at the optimal gear level expected from the developers. This was further confirmed in interviews before 3.0 release. Pushing above expectations for tank and healer DPS was designed as "bonus" damage. This was the most common way for top-tier groups to clear content well below the expected gear level.

Yo were unable to kill avatar and Nael without Tanks and healers doing dps during the first weeks. Or remove one tank in that fight to add one dps more.

Healers are doing dps since Wanderer's Palace is up.

[Yukiko]

Because I find it fun?

If YOU are mastering your job it is ok, but why OTHERS are forced to do same just because YOU have fun?
Do you get what i meant with the aiming? You try to make forcefully contents into a tournament.
Its like you are searching for the top 10 whitemages on your world (just as example)
You can master your role with dollbashing, you dont need content for it if you really just like to become better, when it comes to forcing others to do same or just to show others how awesome you are it is no longer a good excuse in the topic we have here because you lack selfconfidence then!

[Jamein]

If YOU are mastering your job it is ok, but why OTHERS are forced to do same just because YOU have fun?
Do you get what i meant with the aiming? You try to make forcefully contents into a tournament.
Its like you are searching for the top 10 whitemages on your world (just as example)
You can master your role with dollbashing, you dont need content for it if you really just like to become better, when it comes to forcing others to do same or just to show others how awesome you are it is no longer a good excuse in the topic we have here because you lack selfconfidence then!

That's not what it's about, if you read any of my previous posts I never ask for people to be masters at their class. Outside of savage all I ask for is that people are able to perform basic rotations and be at least AVERAGE. I only care when people are under performing, that's when I get annoyed because to under perform and be below average you aren't even doing the basics, and that to me is just insulting. You're playing an MMO, not a single player. To be detrimental to a group of 7 other players is just wrong and pretty arrogant/selfish to say the least.

As for 'doll bashing' no, being good at your class isn't about doing the maximum DPS on a training dummy. It's about being able to play your class to its maximum potential WHILE dealing with mechanics in a fight. Most people can hit decent training dummy numbers, a lot less can keep those numbers while dealing with mechanics at the same time. There's a huge difference.

[Yukiko]

(..) to play your class to its maximum potential WHILE dealing with mechanics in a fight. (..)

Thats not mastering the class, its mastering the content, for mastering the class you do not need content - fact...
If you have to skip one skill inbetween cooldowns because avoiding mechanics is mastering the content but to know that you can fill a skill inbetween is mastering the class, you can not skip something you never learned to do!
It sums up, if you have to do 30 times exact perfect rota (savage) you can go outsite savage and see people drop A LOT on DPS because just doing 20 times the perfect rota and messed 10 times up... its not their fault that DPS sums up with each little mistake. What you expect is exactly that they are doing savage perfection outside of savage! The DPS lost from little mistakes depends on the job you are using but can be a huge difference!

Edit: Just to clarify -> You must not master the class to master the content and thats what makes it into a game!
Edit2: You can work hard to preform better, you can have fun doing so, but thats no longer a game then!
Its just like sports if you participate in a tournament - its no longer "for all", it has made sport into a highscore to see who is the best

[Alisa180]

We are talking about healer's dps being not required, but if you want to be a kick ass WHM, the ability to use cleric stance without falling apart is an important skill and if you can't hadle it, then chances are that your spot would get relegated to a worse "Sylphie" than you, but someone who can manage to throw at least few Aeros here and there.

And this, IMHO, is the entire problem with the current healing meta in a nutshell.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

Just a random thought: Why will you aim to be TOP in your role? I mean, we are playing a game to have FUN, dont we?
There is no highscore, so why forcing savage to be one? If you like to compare your Skills maybe you should consider to play a FPS and not a RPG genre!

Because....

I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was....

no let that stick in your head for the rest of the day :P

[Dante_V]

>>>>>"Just a random thought: Why will you aim to be TOP in your role? I mean, we are playing a game to have FUN, dont we?
There is no highscore, so why forcing savage to be one? If you like to compare your Skills maybe you should consider to play a FPS and not a RPG genre!"

So much ignorance in this quote it's really hard to take seriously. Being good and fun aren't mutually exclusive. Progressing is fun to me. No one is forcing savage to be anything. If you don't like savage don't do it. As far as "maybe you should consider playing another game" while complaining about the way THIS GAME is currently is a little obnoxious. I like the way the game is, if you don't perhaps maybe you should be the one to leave...

[Brian_]

It's simple.

In all my time playing this game, I have never seen someone complain that something went too smooth. Despite the countless topics complaining about horrible DF experiences, none of those stories has been about a group that was too good at the game. If you clear something and you do it quickly and efficiently, the attitudes after are almost always pretty pleasant. Nobody is complaining that a 16 minute EX-roulette run wasn't 14 minutes, that a Ravana EX clear didn't end before Final Liberation, that a Thordan EX run that one-shot without a death didn't skip phase 9, or that an A1S didn't end with 0~1 jumps.

The point is, why do we run content? Do you do EX-roulette because you want a 50 minute run rife with toxicity and multiple replacements? Do you join a PF learning group to regress in your progression? Do you join a clear group to go an entire lock-out wiping in the early portion of the fight? Do you join a farm group to teach people with law bonus how to do the basics of the fight?

People have goals when they do content. And, often, that goal is a majority opinion. The majority wants smooth and efficient EX-roulette runs. The majority expects to learn and have incremental progression in learning parties. The majority expects clear parties to have the qualifications to clear. The majority expects farm groups to actually farm.

The reason why you come to content prepared and you try to play your role to the best of your abilities is because some content requires a team to clear. Being proficient at your role fits within most shared goals. Despite their claims otherwise, it's the people who insist on playing their own way who are counterproductive in the same context.

It's about understanding the communal standards for content and doing your part in trying to reach said standards. It's about putting aside your ego and selfishness and understanding that there is more to an MMO than yourself. For whatever reason, NA players don't understand this and it causes stress across all levels.

[Ayerinn]

I don't really do the 8-man (non-trials,) but the the static in my FC broke up due to them wanting challenge, but not at the level of savage (and normal was too easy.) A few of them went to different savage groups but the majority completely quit the game. I feel bad for them - they talked so foundly of the raiding in this game in ARR, were super excited for HW, and now are just gone.

[Calypsx]

I blame savage and it's extremely high difficulty, and find this sort of community meta disgusting when healers are getting kicked for not doing enough damage. Tanks too.

Hardly anyone is getting kicked for this reason. I think you're exaggerating. Running into bad apples though can happen sometimes and it sucks but it's not as much as a widespread problem as the forums makes it out to be.

I haven't actually heard about anyone complaining about tank and healer dps in dungeons I played ever. Savage is a different story and players there should be utilizing every part of their job when it comes to doing that.