FFXIV dungeons are a little bit too linear?

[WinterLuna]

There's no point in making dungeons labyrinthine because people will always just find the shortest and fastest route to the end. Even if you were to compare MMORPG dungeons to single player RPG dungeons, you have to keep in mind that in singe player RPGs the dungeons are the meat of the gameplay, whereas in MMORPGs they are just one piece of the bigger platter of content. MMORPGs also tend to focus more on the boss challenges, not exploration, since exploration is kind of useless in a game where you are meant to do the same place multiple times.

I mean, you're right, but at least we'd have the option. We don't have any choice right now but to follow he straight line to the end.

[Squrilruler]

I mean, you're right, but at least we'd have the option. We don't have any choice right now but to follow he straight line to the end.

But why? If people are going to do it once and be done, for 30 extra minutes in this one area, what is the point? Would the time not be better spent on something else that will be utilized more?

[Eimian_Eda]

But why? If people are going to do it once and be done, for 30 extra minutes in this one area, what is the point? Would the time not be better spent on something else that will be utilized more?

Why give players interesting design and content for mid game? I guess you're right, they admit to being lazy anyway.
"We just went to get to endgame content faster! (To become bored of it faster, of course!")
Endgame, which is a carbon copy of the (no) design of mid game.
So are we using this extra 30 mins of time... crafting? SE is putting it into new hair?

Heaven forbid MMO's retain some semblance of open world immersion that hooked players back in the day.
Heaven forbid players don't want to be hand held like children in a straight, somewhat wiggly line.

Oh... wait.
That is what they want now.
RIP the genre we used to know, RIP interesting game design, Hello more glamors o7

[Magis]

Why give players interesting design and content for mid game? I guess you're right, they admit to being lazy anyway.

SE should just strip all stats and materia from gear and just give it an ilvl number and model. Then this game will truly trim off all the depth errr I mean "fat" that is "obsolete mechanics".

[Squrilruler]

Why give players interesting design and content for mid game? ...
Heaven forbid MMO's retain some semblance of open world immersion that hooked players back in the day.
Heaven forbid players don't want to be hand held like children in a straight, somewhat wiggly line. ...
RIP the genre we used to know...

I don't disagree that an "interesting design" would be bad. However, I would much rather have 3 different "linear" dungeons than 1 dungeon with 3 different paths.
I also have said that these kind of meandering dungeons would be great for the retainer/GC groups SE has said they want to implement.
Open world immersion? I feel this kind of thing works best in a single player setting (as well as this RIP the genre we used to know), where you don't have to rely on others to get stuff done. You can also save and clear it at your own pace. Everyone has their own play speed. And making content take 2+ hours is just not realistic for this mid game content...

A lot of players would enjoy exploring the dungeon or going the different ways, even if they only did it with their FC. It just gives something more when you're doing a dungeon. I don't see the problem with that.

I agree! However, I would much rather have 2-3 different dungeons than one huge sprawling dungeon that takes 2-3+ hours to clear.

[Kurogaea]

I don't disagree that an "interesting design" would be bad. However, I would much rather have 3 different "linear" dungeons than 1 dungeon with 3 different paths.
I also have said that these kind of meandering dungeons would be great for the retainer/GC groups SE has said they want to implement.
Open world immersion? I feel this kind of thing works best in a single player setting (as well as this RIP the genre we used to know), where you don't have to rely on others to get stuff done. You can also save and clear it at your own pace. Everyone has their own play speed. And making content take 2+ hours is just not realistic for this mid game content...

Are you kidding? Retainer groups would work even without linear dungeons because they will follow you wherever you go, even places that are unnecessary to finish a dungeon. 3 dungeons other than 1 dungeon the size of 3 dungeons? If you want to play a short dungeon I recommend dungeon crawler mobile games that meant to be played in spurts. Why play a huge MMO RPG if your going to do things in it that last 15 mins? If you don't have time to do an "average dungeon" dungeon in an MMO (which 14 does not have other than 2.x dungeons) then YOU should play a single player game, at least your game 5 hour rpg will seem longer than it is playing 15 mins a day. :/

btw, no one said the content will take 2 hours, who makes dungeons that take 2 hours?? Not even Skyrim has dungeons like that unless you have extreme bladder issues and pee every 5 mins, even then you should finish finding your goal in like 45 mins. 2 hours is over exaggerating.

[Squrilruler]

Snippety snip

Obviously you did not read what I wrote as I said the retainer+meandering dungeons would be a GOOD IDEA. I never said that 15 minutes spurts is what I am after, I actually think the current design of about 30 minutes is perfect. It is a little bit of a time commitment but it isn't going to take my entire night to clear. And it may not have been you, but there have been several people touting the BRD from WoW. While an interesting dungeon, it was long as fuck. 2+ hours for maybe clearing one side is not unusual. So yea, content being created now is not designed to be that long, but everyone who wants these types of dungeons wants dungeons like BRD, thus, wanting dungeons 2+ hours. And Skyrim definitely has atleast 2-3 of these huge 2+ hours dungeons... I remember on dungeon I was in hour many hours, clearing, having my inventory full, going back, emptying, coming back and continuing. There weren't a lot, but they are there.

[Kurogaea]

snip

Ah, yeah I misread that apparently, my bads.

Although:



This is why I say comparing XIV to WoW is ridiculous.

No ones asking for an entire world in a dungeon.



Diverging paths and floors with different paths to reach a goal.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130113072529
(other map was too small)

Anyways, under passes that lead to lower areas for a change of atmosphere, possibly difficulty, with side quests maybe given by nearby npcs that rewards you after the task is complete and the dungeon is finished.



Wider areas giving more space to explore other than the claustrophobic aspect that we've been used to for too long.
Branching paths offering a new spin to each run (considering you the group your in) also leaving opportunities for relic quest paths.

Doesn't have to be labyrinth tier, this is story content after all. If there was something like BRD it'd most likely be optional content you can run on a day off or something.

[Stanelis]

we mustn't look into past for find new solution but really in the present.

Good game design never gets old. People still play chess nowadays and it isn't the youngest game.

The issues you re mentioning don't arise necessarily from open world dungeons, but rather from sloppy rewards system mechanics, which can be addressed separately.

It's a necessary evil sadly to keep dungeons simplistic cause the moment you create options, you only create obstacles that make the DF process harder.

When you have to design the content around the DF, then you have a huge game design problem. The Df is a tool to help players find groups, it shouldn't dictate how the content is to be designed.

No ones asking for an entire world in a dungeon.

Why not ? That would be great. Especially if you wouldn't be able to do the whole dungeon in a single run (it would add a replay value to the dungeon).

[WinterLuna]

But why? If people are going to do it once and be done, for 30 extra minutes in this one area, what is the point? Would the time not be better spent on something else that will be utilized more?

A lot of players would enjoy exploring the dungeon or going the different ways, even if they only did it with their FC. It just gives something more when you're doing a dungeon. I don't see the problem with that.