The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[Shug]

why do you want them to make tank and healer gameplay even more boring? just because you can't or don't want to do damage?

especially in raids where you suppose to be good at your job.

Thats the thing, who are you to say that keeping everybody alive and doing a little dps is not good at their job? Thats the whole point of this post. If you need healer or tank to push more dps, doesn't that make you bad at your job?

[Greedalox]

Thats the thing, who are you to say that keeping everybody alive and doing a little dps is not good at their job? Thats the whole point of this post. If you need healer or tank to push more dps, doesn't that make you bad at your job?

Not necessarily. Your class can only push out a maximum number for a given situation. That's perfection. Most players could never hit perfection, but many are able to be near it when they do their rotations for a situation well enough. Just because most players can't do 100% perfect damage output doesn't make them bad players. However early Alexander Savage clears had amazing DPS who would never have been able to push content with just the DPS and tanks threat rotations.

You're just being silly implying that the DPS are bad because content was designed to be above and beyond relying on just the DPS.

[Zephrey]

If savage alex is making raids up and quit content due to the difficulty and DPS checks that should be more than enough reason to see how badly designed it is. I really don't agree at all for having healers and tanks focus on DPS and I'm one of those that really try to DPS when I can; that really tries to push things when I can. It's suppose to be a factor of, if I can, I will as a healer; not if I don't we instantly lose no matter how geared my DPS are.

[Fevelle]

why do you want them to make tank and healer gameplay even more boring? just because you can't or don't want to do damage?

especially in raids where you suppose to be good at your job.

Who said we want them to make it boring? It's boring because, as of now, we don't need even to pop CDs outside of the highest tier raid to keep the party alive. Seriously, do you really think a WHM -needs to- use Divine Seal on a normal run? We use it to make our job easier (and to have more time to DPS, mind it), but it's not like other tanks and DPS jobs that will probably fail at their job if they don't use their cooldowns correctly.

Taking away DPS capabilities from healers in 4-man, 8-man and 24-man content gives us space to ask for one more thing: make healing NECESSARY. We are currently "supporting" the party with one heal or other, not focusing on healing. That's what I want: encounters where I have to push my job to its maximum by HEALING, not by popping CDs to create time windows and help with damage.

[Kosmos992k]

And if that happens I'll stop being a tank.

This is the problem, you're a tank, not dps, yet a threat to your big numbers would make you quit? Some tank you are. If it's about pushing yourself, how does altering the damage calculation or lower numbers change that? You will still be able to push yourself for maximum damage as a tank if you want. But you're acting like the number itself matters, why exactly? If all you wznt is big numbers go play DPS.

[Heskett]

I'll only be okay with it if everything in 3.2 and onward's HP is scaled lower to adjust for less tank/healer damage.

[Shug]

Not necessarily. Your class can only push out a maximum number for a given situation. That's perfection. Most players could never hit perfection, but many are able to be near it when they do their rotations for a situation well enough. Just because most players can't do 100% perfect damage output doesn't make them bad players. However early Alexander Savage clears had amazing DPS who would never have been able to push content with just the DPS and tanks threat rotations.

You're just being silly implying that the DPS are bad because content was designed to be above and beyond relying on just the DPS.

Yoshida said in an interview about Alex Savage that healer and tank dps are not factored in when tuning difficulty (the quote is on a post somewhere in here. I found where it was mentioned, still looking for the actual quote.)

[DGladius]

This is the problem, you're a tank, not dps, yet a threat to your big numbers would make you quit? Some tank you are. If it's about pushing yourself, how does altering the damage calculation or lower numbers change that? You will still be able to push yourself for maximum damage as a tank if you want. But you're acting like the number itself matters, why exactly? If all you wznt is big numbers go play DPS.

What good is a warrior or dark knight if they hit like wet noodles while wielding a giant 2-handed axe/greatsword. Wouldn't make sense to me. They are meant to deal high damage for bigger self heals and generate more threat.

[Kosmos992k]

I think as far as tank meta goes, SE could change it so that a tank's skill is measured by their ability to put out threat. If tanks had to focus on maintaining hate and if DPS could realistically push up against the treat cap of a tank in equal gear people would start to value threat generation a lot more.

Bingo! You win a prize for being 100% correct and on point about the problem in this game with regard to tank play.

[lawlHT]

Yoshida said in an interview about Alex Savage that healer and tank dps are not factored in when tuning difficulty (the quote is on a post somewhere in here. I found where it was mentioned, still looking for the actual quote.)

While true, the dps checks were tuned for a higher item level than was possible to achieve when the first clears were happening, thus necessitating tanks and healers push as much dps as possible to reach the goal.