The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[dejavutwo]

I think as far as tank meta goes, SE could change it so that a tank's skill is measured by their ability to put out threat. If tanks had to focus on maintaining hate and if DPS could realistically push up against the treat cap of a tank in equal gear people would start to value threat generation a lot more.

[Ladon]

It's kind of sad how many here don't seem to realize more tank damage = more tank threat.

[Fevelle]

I'm not sure you get how this works. LLR is already pretty long for DPS players, if less people wanted to play Tank or Healer then the queues would get longer for LLR and even the level 60 roulettes. Good players want to be able to push their job to the limit and help speed up the run as much as possible. Once everyone who wants to level the neutered Heal and Tank jobs cap out or quit midway to 60. You're still worse off than you would be if they could DPS to contribute.

I know I wouldn't play Tank or Healer if I was literally just there to hold threat or keep people alive, I probably wouldn't play the game at all.

Well I would, that's the solely reason I rolled a Healer. And TBH, if you ever put up a Healer in your party to push DPS on a FF game: you were playing it wrong.

[AeraLure]

I've been thinking about this and, because I am not really a computer gamer too much, I only have Guild Wars (original) to compare this to, but:

When I think about Guild Wars, each class had 40-50+ skills, but you could only ever take 8 into combat with you. This led to the rather fun (and challenging) necessity of setting up builds, finding skill synergy and choosing what build you might take to what encounter, be it PvE or PvP. For each class of course the internet hive mind developed a few main builds for each class that were commonly used, but there were always variations and people playing with unique ideas, continually adjusted and complicated with additional expansion skills and buffs/nerfs.

In FFXIV it's almost completely DPS. Most skills a job has do damage, unless you are a healer, in which case around half your skills heal or mitigate damage. There's no builds to speak of, as you have access to all your skills always. Issue I see now that I have a melee DPS (DRG, while I main WHM) is there is one suggested rotation. That's it. It's the ideal rotation and the game's complication or complexity is can you or can you not memorize it and pull it off during mechanics? It's simply the highest outputting damage rotation and it's kind of silly to do anything else. That made me think of all my time healing so far. The surprise and complexity comes from other players maybe getting hit by an avoidable aoe, but outside that, you've got a rotation there too, and that includes DPS. This is also how SE has balanced fights - damage. Admittedly Coil so far (I'm new-ish - been playing 2-3 months) has fantastic mechanics, but all of the jobs push for maximizing dps. Some jobs have some utility to work in there (Goad etc), but it's mostly focused damage output. I'm trying to think of all my various healer builds and experimentations in GW - Invinci-monk, Prot builds, high heal - I just can't really remember them well enough to come up with concrete examples - but there were lots of different ways to do a tank build, too. The comparison I'm trying to make is builds vs rotations. Rotations are this game's "builds" but it feels like there's really only one, and that one is the one that does the highest damage (or, keeps the group alive while doing damage, or keeps hate while doing damage).

I think this is an area where this game is really, really straightforwardly focused on damage maximizing, hence the current meta. Not sure all of it comes down to Coil and it's wonderful mechanics as compared to Alex Savage (even though Coil is more fun by all accounts - I haven't played Savage yet - not sure I wish to) - it's kind of more core game design. Pretty sure there isn't any changing it as it was designed that way - and I am not even saying it's bad, really - it's just the core game design is potency, be it heal/mitigate, damage or hate generation, so I am not really surprised at all to find in the short time I have played that DPS output for all classes (and how high a player can push it) is the single most valued thing.

[Shug]

Which brings the need of official parsers back on the plan, but that can also divide the community due to the elite behavior of some players knocking on it, '1500+ DPS or bust'.

That's already happening without official parsers.

[Isius]

I think the current meta is okay, but I don't fully support it either, because it has gone overboard where people just only think about dps first and only. tank/dps/healer mechanics need to be more blanced out in the game, then just have dps is greater then all mentality.

[Shug]

Remember in 2.0 when solo healing and solo tanking was a thing?

[Isius]

In statics/progression groups like Coil? That is still kind of a thing in Alex Savage. One healer heals majority of a fight, while the other healer just dps, and only heals during tank busters, and during key moments. Same for tanks, one mt, and the other tank is basically acts like another dps, and only tanks when needed too, let along several tanks in Alex Savage tank without thier tank stance too all the time. Tanks are basically just harder to kill dps in 3.0 at endgame.

[Evangela]

why do you want them to make tank and healer gameplay even more boring? just because you can't or don't want to do damage?

especially in raids where you suppose to be good at your job.

[Rath]

You were expected to do good damage as scholar and warrior in coil as well if your group wasn't horrible, this isn't exactly a new meta. I do agree that DPS checks that are this tight are a bit ridiculous though. It's a crappy way of making savage take longer to clear, and alexander is a terrible raid because of it.

Coil didn't need checks this tight and I kinda miss it...what happened to fun mechanics.

They added the DPS checks for heals because in coils the progression groups cleared them so fast because of healer DPS. They designed the next set of raids to include this DPS since the hardcore raiders already used it. They then split Alex into savage and normal mode to allow those that did not ever do savage coil (and did not really try to figure out the mechanics on their own) to get gear from normal and not need to do savage, as they already cleared the storyline.

The only reason people are complaining now is that they actually added better gear in savage this time around. If it was just a title most people would not even be trying it as it was not intended for them anyways.