Current state of MCH?

[Dianoia]

MCH and BRD pay too big of a damage penalty for too little utility. Nearly every damage dealer was handed some potent party utility and doesn't pay a damage tax. Not to mention that their utility is almost useless in a dungeon. BRD & MCH are brought to raids as a mana battery and for foe's.

[Greedalox]

MCH and BRD pay too big of a damage penalty for too little utility. Nearly every damage dealer was handed some potent party utility and doesn't pay a damage tax. Not to mention that their utility is almost useless in a dungeon. BRD & MCH are brought to raids as a mana battery and for foe's.

I'd hardly call being mandatory in progressive content a giant pentalty for their utility. The other DPS who don't have a "penalty" seem to be quite interchangeable with each other. They also have the perk of having very nice trash clearing in dungeons when their utility isn't used so it's not like that's a lost cause.

[Archaell]

I have to agree that the penalty seems a little bit too big, especially when MCH and BRD have to use GB and WM. Progressive content aside, our utility suffers a lot in faceroll content and light parties.

Bard had mandatory presence when there was no MCH, but now they are fighting over one slot. I am not aware that progression FCs would take both with all the dps checks, so that's hardly excuse for penalty so big.

[Underdog2204]

I'd hardly call being mandatory in progressive content a giant pentalty for their utility. The other DPS who don't have a "penalty" seem to be quite interchangeable with each other. They also have the perk of having very nice trash clearing in dungeons when their utility isn't used so it's not like that's a lost cause.

DRG's aren't interchangable.

Neither is BLM+SMN, no more than BRD+MCH is anyway.

DRG is the only job that has a mandatory slot, people never seem to realise this for some reason though.

[Greedalox]

DRG's aren't interchangable.

Neither is BLM+SMN, no more than BRD+MCH is anyway.

DRG is the only job that has a mandatory slot, people never seem to realise this for some reason though.

Alas we're left with Brd/Mch - Smn/Blm - Drg and (Nin,Mnk and Smn/Blm) fighting for the spot. Every class is jealous of Drg DPS + utility so that's more of an isolated problem that may or may not need to be tuned. However I hardly think that buffing Brd/Mch damage so that you can cut out Nin and Mnk for the 4th slot would be a nice thing to do, considering they already wrestle with Brd comps who want the second caster.

It'd be like the days of early coil where everyone wanted multiple Bards because their damage was so overtuned for what else they brought to the table.

[Archaell]

Alas we're left with Brd/Mch - Smn/Blm - Drg and (Nin,Mnk and Smn/Blm) fighting for the spot. Every class is jealous of Drg DPS + utility so that's more of an isolated problem that may or may not need to be tuned. However I hardly think that buffing Brd/Mch damage so that you can cut out Nin and Mnk for the 4th slot would be a nice thing to do, considering they already wrestle with Brd comps who want the second caster.

It'd be like the days of early coil where everyone wanted multiple Bards because their damage was so overtuned for what else they brought to the table.

Of course buffing their dps to MNK and NIN level would be a bad idea, but I don't think that if the penalty was halved to make BRD+MCH groups more viable, it would be evil in any way.

Personally as MCH I would love to be able to play with my friends who main BRD, instead of fighting with them for a spot.

[Underdog2204]

Alas we're left with Brd/Mch - Smn/Blm - Drg and (Nin,Mnk and Smn/Blm) fighting for the spot. Every class is jealous of Drg DPS + utility so that's more of an isolated problem that may or may not need to be tuned. However I hardly think that buffing Brd/Mch damage so that you can cut out Nin and Mnk for the 4th slot would be a nice thing to do, considering they already wrestle with Brd comps who want the second caster.

It'd be like the days of early coil where everyone wanted multiple Bards because their damage was so overtuned for what else they brought to the table.

BRD is not the only job now though...

Having both jobs be completely incompatible with each other is terrible design imo, at least there is an option to take a BLM and SMN if a group so chooses.

SE has backed themselves into a corner on this I think.

[Greedalox]

BRD is not the only job now though...

Having both jobs be completely incompatible with each other is terrible design imo, at least there is an option to take a BLM and SMN if a group so chooses.

SE has backed themselves into a corner on this I think.

I don't think many games have a design philosophy that all designated supports would make a great team. On that factor, I'm not against the incompatability of MCH/BRD on the same team and I don't feel that them being weak together is a design flaw or a backed into a corner move, it would be a different story if they just made us straight up DPS and got rid of the support tag.

[Underdog2204]

I don't think many games have a design philosophy that all designated supports would make a great team. On that factor, I'm not against the incompatability of MCH/BRD on the same team and I don't feel that them being weak together is a design flaw or a backed into a corner move, it would be a different story if they just made us straight up DPS and got rid of the support tag.

Support is a very loose term for this game, it's just a resource battery. DPS battery is more appropriate ^^

Now if we were talking about actual support that involves buffing, debuffing, CCing etc (would be awesome) then I would agree with you but we arn't they just have a couple of buttons to press now and again. 99% of the time they are dps doing dps rotations.

It is just poor design imo.